Talk:The Sacrifice

So, if this is downloaded for L4D2, it's basically the L4D version with the L4D2 weapons and SI? San Demon  Max  05:09 August 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * From my understanding of it it doesn't matter which game you download it to. You use the new weapons and combat the new SI either way. Nightmirage 05:12, August 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * Nope, new features for L4D2 such as Melee weapons, New weapons, New Special infected, Uncommon common infected, Gorefest graphics are NOT imported to L4D1's version, but it is not fair to put this DLC on only L4D2, so they imported them. 218.186.10.241 11:36, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

price
how much does it cost for the xbox 360 version ?

Nothing confirmed, but probably 560 MS like the other two DLCs.--With care and happiness, Supermutantslayer450' YOU. LOSE. 05:23, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

No date yet? Damn. But this is pretty interesting regardless.

Hunter Punter 06:08, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Vs

this is great news, activision should take a page...hell take a whole chapter out of ValvE's book. this is what DLC should be, and great L4D1survivors in L4D2 playable, this could bring up the whole 8vs8 debate again as you can play as both. And No Mercy was my favorite from L4D1, but i think L4D2 is getting a better deal. Good work ValvE.now you finish off the xbox TF2 updates from last year. *Sarcasm*Smish34 11:57, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Here's an interview with a plausible release date of October 5th. http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/08/21/interview-valve-on-their-new-left-4-dead-dlc/

Hmm, wonder when the Valve Time will be? Hunter Punter 14:24, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

So lemme get this straight....
L4D1:

The main Campaign

L4D2 special infected

L4D2:

all of the above

No Mercy Remake

L4D1 Characters (possibly a campaign exclusive)

Am i right? Or is there something i missed? (94.3.141.77 13:18, August 21, 2010 (UTC))

L4D1 = Just a new campaign. I doubt they will add L4D2 SI to it, because it involves too much to change in game mechanics.

L4D2 = Also, just a new campaign, but with ported L4D1 Survivors. And, with No Mercy remake for Left 4 Dead 2. Because they're inviting L4D1 voice actors this

time, they could record additional survivor lines to match with L4D2 like "Bile Bomb here!" and "Charger" etc., so theorically, now they can convert any

L4D1 campaign for L4D2 harmlessly.

A note - The Sound\player\survivor folder (all dialogs) in L4D1 is 800mb. And that excludes No Mercy music, Chopper Pilot speech, etc.

Will this give us 1+ Gb to install? That's probly the way it's gonna be, although I wish they could find a way to make L4D2 engine read repeating sound files from L4D1 folder,

if a player has it installed. Urik Kane 13:22, August 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * 3.5 Gbs to me D: 218.186.10.241 11:40, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

uncommon infected and comic
do you think there will be an uncommon infected in the dlc for left 4 dead 1?

p.s. how much do you think the comic is?

It's digital, so I'm assuming it's free. I hope so! I'm a broke college kid! Nightmirage 23:19, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

HOPE there will be an uncommon for L4D1...dont THINK there will be uncommom for L4D1.Hengara 14:33, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Speaking of the comic, in the page that was shown for the comic where Louis was out on a building talking to that guy named Ray, did anyone else notice the figure on the far left that looked much like the Heavy Weapons Guy from Team Fortress 2? Is this an easter egg or something? Masterlegodude 23:32, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

I cant wait for this

Birds...possibly crescendo event?
After hearing Bill's line for The Sacrifice, saying "Shut up you goddamn birds!", it makes me wonder that perhaps the survivors are wandering in a place where the noise of birds can attract a horde, like the crows did in the Blood Harvest finale. Hunter Punter 23:00, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Does this mean all.
Does this mean we can choose from the all 8 characters if we buy the DLC. OMFG I want to play as Zoey on Left 4 Dead 2

No, you only get to choose the survivors in their respective campgains. From what was said, only the L4D1 survivors can be used in The Sacrifice and the No Mercy port. Though I'm sure once the proper materials are given out with the DLC, people will make mod skins to replace all the L4D2 survivors with the old ones. Hunter Punter 23:47, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

I'm back on the site to clear some things up and make two requests!
Hello JokersFlame again!...What?...You....You don't remeber me? Well I only show up when major DLC news starts happening...any-hoo I'm back for a while!

If you didn't know L4D1 gets 3 new maps with this upcoming DLC. (No new weapons or abilities at all.)

However L4D2 gets the same 3 maps including an updated version of No Mercy with all the L4D2 Features and weapons (8 Maps), they also get to play the same DLC (As said above) with L4D2 weapons, All SI, Melee ability (With fatigue in campaign), and Uncommon common.

That being said has their been an article for the Comic yet? We have tons of info on it and a few basic shots, we even know of a new charcter named "Ray"!

Also my second request is to put "The Last Stand" after "The Sacrifice", as it isn't even canon.JokersFlame 03:43, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

Well played, Joker. I'll see if I can swap them around. And I'll talk to one of the Janitors about a Comic Page. Chris Thorpe 10:17, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks man, it's just a small pet-peeve of mine that it wasn't before Last Stand storywise. I also added the name of where Louis worked and added Louis's co-worker Ray to the "survivors" list along with a photo (Both can be seen in the Game Trailers interveiw.). I have a feeling this comic will have us add a bunch of stuff to everyones page and I'm defintly focusing my upcoming effort on the comic over the DLC when it comes to updateing the wiki.

Also one more thing?! It seems that on the left tool bar under "Campaigns" "The Sacrifice" is actually still under "The Last Stand" for that one. I would fix it myself but I'm still finding out more the the more basic ways of editing.JokersFlame 19:06, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

Infected Hospital Staff in No Mercy Remake?
If the remake is going to use the L4D2 common infected models, it's going to be very strange if there's a big lack of infected doctors, nurses and patients. Is there any news that Valve will be making L4D2 variants of said zombies?

-- Tidalwave11, just surfing the waves, three times a week  14:16, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

I doubt that. More than likely, they'll look the same in a sense (the L4D versions with L4D2 details). The biggest difference between the two may be the wound system they added in the second game. San Demon  Max  18:30 August 23, 2010 (UTC)

Will Bill be back?
Well will be back from the grave? Longjohns 19:56, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

...Yes.--With care and happiness, Supermutantslayer450' YOU. LOSE. 20:23, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

Well, this takes place BEFORE The Passing so he won't be back from the grave. This'll just be before he even went to the grave. Nightmirage 03:48, August 24, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah this campaign is where you get to put Bill IN the grave. Or anyone else, for that matter. Let's hope there's an achievement for sacrificing yourself to make up for not surviving. Also, forgot to sign in. Sorry.

I remember seeing this one interview in which a representative from Value stated the official canon is that Bill sacrifices himself to save the others, and that means he is dead and gone forever. No revolving death's door in the Left 4 Dead world. However, the rep also said that this was not the last we would see of Zoey, Lewis, and Francis. Value already had things in the works for them, and when asked if they would get a new teammate, the answer was a definiate "maybe". Midnightchemist 23:11, October 1, 2010 (UTC)But Lthe L4D team just wouldn't be the same with a new dang teammate!;( I mean, COME ON!Look at how much they've been through.173.27.132.100 03:29, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

Two for the price of one
will the download be for l4d1 and l4d2 or will i have to pay for both of them SolidHitman 101 20:24, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

It will be for both, but the L4D2 Version will be better.JokersFlame 20:26, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

I'm just glad they are still paying attention to the first game. --Signatures/Guthix's mage2 21:35, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

Video?
Hello,

I would like to know where to find the inteveiw with Chet? Could you put it in a link? Otacon1514 22:13, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

Placed the link on the wiki page. Wizkid5000 00:47, August 24, 2010 (UTC)

http://bit.ly/as52DA  Pikmin  1254 

For Both games
Do I have to download it for both games if I want the original survivors in L4D2?

You can't get the original Survivors for L4D2. You can use the Special Infected and weapons from L4D2 in No Mercy with the the originals, but you won't be using the originals in L4D2 campaigns. Nightmirage 03:45, August 24, 2010 (UTC)

You have it ALL wrong, nightmirage. Its a DLC for BOTH games, first of all. if you get it for the first game, you'll play the campaign like any other left 4 dead campaign. If you get it for the second game, you'll get the sacrifice and no mercy to be played in left 4 dead 2, with every left 4 dead 2 feature, but (exclusve to these 2) you will be able to play only as the original survivors. Grasscid 02:59, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Uh...that's exactly what I said. You will get the original Survivors for The Sacrifice and No Mercy if you download it for L4D2, but you won't get them for the original L4D2 campaigns (like Hard Rain, etc.). Therefore, you cannot get the original Survivors for anything central to the L4D2 storyline. Nightmirage 03:08, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Sacrifice AI??
This is really important right because I need to know if we can sacrifice the AI Not human players cos am not really up to sacrificing my friends thats really unfair and I dont want to be the sacrifice either. so can somebody let me know if we can sacrifice the AI.
 * Wait until the DLC is released. Sera404 16:10, August 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * you act like this will really kill you. The sacrifice will probably be at the end so it doesn't give you an unfair team. Signatures/Guthix's mage2 16:50, August 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you're playing with three controlled survivors and one AI bot, obviously you'd want to force the bot to do it. But there are still lots of ways it could work, it'll be answered eventually. I wonder about single player. If it is just you and 3 bots, and you are forced to be the one doing the sacrifice, then there would be no way you could complete as it would end when you died.FattyLaffyTaffy 03:53, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Unless they are in the Rescue Area and you get Incapacitated. Chris Thorpe 12:34, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sure that in Single player what may happen is that the Bill bot (Should it be the bot) will be the sacrifice for the storyline, or a random bot should he be the human player. Or......... The sacrifice itself is the end of the campaign and ends the game once it is done meaning the death counts afterwards to avoid the game saying the only human player is dead and resetting itself.Adammadmanwilmot 00:56, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sure that in Single player what may happen is that the Bill bot (Should it be the bot) will be the sacrifice for the storyline, or a random bot should he be the human player. Or......... The sacrifice itself is the end of the campaign and ends the game once it is done meaning the death counts afterwards to avoid the game saying the only human player is dead and resetting itself.Adammadmanwilmot 00:56, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

L4D1 Infected Models
I think the answer to what the Tank, Hunter, (male) Boomer, and Smoker would look like, is their L4D2 models. When I watched the interview between Chet and GTV, I saw a gameplay clip that the first photo (the one with Francis reloading and a flaming Tank). It showed the Tank running down to the Survivors, so I saw it's head; I don't remember seeing any hair on him. Also, if you look at the picture with Bill and the Tank, that one is bald as well. San Demon  Max  02:12 August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * It could simply be that the L4D1 version uses the L4D1 models while the L4D2 version uses the L4D2 models. Pretty simple and straightforward when you think about it. :D Sera404 07:40, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * True, but if both groups cross paths, only one Model type will be used. Chris Thorpe 10:35, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Uh, they both cross paths - in The Passing. There's nothing about them meeting up in The Sacrifice. Sera404 13:13, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * But in The Passing, the original weren't controllable were they? Now that Control is given to the Originals in The Sacrifice, things may change. Chris Thorpe 13:21, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, yes, that's true. But I don't think that we'll actually have control over the original Survivors while the new ones fill the generator. If the finale is in the same area as The Port, then we'll play from when the first Survivors arrive, to when the bridge is sent up and Bill (or whoever is sacrificed) is killed, most likely. But that's my guess. San  Demon  Max  21:35 August 26. 2010 (UTC)

New Lines for weapons and Special infected
Does anyone know if the original survivors will have new lines if we play as them in Left 4 Dead 2 like will they say Adreneline here or Big arm(meaning the charger) E.C.T.

From what I heard, yes. Oh, and Sign your Post next time with ~ like I have done here --> Chris Thorpe 14:08, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

Why is the Sacrifice listed in L4D2's list?
But No Mercy isn't? I'm consused. Should both games have both in their campaign lists or not at all?JokersFlame 22:44, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

We cant technically put it there because No Mercy is soley Left 4 Dead 's storyline, The Sacrifce connects both of the games. Wizkid5000 23:29, August 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * True, No Mercy on L4D2 is more of a 'retelling'. It might even be a retcon, making the early Spitter x-ray photo have some sense. Sera404 23:57, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

The Sacrifice doesn't have anything to do with L4D2, its a L4D1 Story and a L4D1 Story alone. At no point does it cross over with L4D2. And Canonwise you don't even play as the L4D2 characters in the L4D2 Version. I say take it off the list or add No Mercy, don't be picky. Also can we change at the very LEAST putting the "The Sacrifice" where it belongs on the toolbars to the left of teh screen under "Campaigns". For some reason it's under "The Last Stand." and under "The Parish".JokersFlame 00:37, August 27, 2010(UTC)

I disagree. You see though The Sacrifice has nothing to do with Left 4 Dead 2s story line, it connects to ''The Passing. ''This is where the connection I stated above is made. This is (for now) the survivors last stand together, until they "pass the torch" to the new survivors. No Mercy has no connection to Left 4 Dead 2s story what so ever, and as Sera stated, a "retelling," what Left 4 Dead would've been like ,if it was made like Left 4 Dead 2.Wizkid5000 01:07, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

It may connect to the passing, but it doesnt mean we need to put Death Toll in L4D2's list because it's connected to No Mercy do we? You don't play the L4D2 team, they are never mentioned, you never even would know about them if this was L4D1 Exclusive DLC. And where does it say that this will be a retelling and not an exact copy of L4D1's maps? It's the same deal, you never play the L4D2's team or story with this upcoming DLC. I still see no reason not to have No Mercy in their list if the Sacrifice is.JokersFlame 04:24, August 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * Exactly, we don't have No Mercy in Left 4 Dead 2 ' s list so we don't need to put Death Toll in it. No Mercy is exclusive to Left 4 Dead where as The Sacrifice and The Passing tie the two games together. No Mercy is a port. It's not actually connecting to the storyline, whereas The Sacrifice will deal with both games' storyline. Jo the Marten  [[Image:Mini Hunter.png|I dare you to click Mini Hunter|link=http://l4dwiki.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&user=venatorphile]]( Shriek )  ಠ_ಠ  04:44, August 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * But the Sacrifice doesn't deal with L4D2's storyline and barely at all. It only connects to the Passing with Bill's death and other then that you don't even play as the L4D2 crew! This isn't really a L4D2 Story its a L4D1 Story. Do you at least see where I am coming from? I mean it will have zero connection unlike the passing does. I mean by your logic then the Passing should be added to L4D1's list because it effects both games storyline.JokersFlame 06:13, August 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hmm. I think I do see your point now. It's like The Sacrifice is to the original four whereas The Passing is to the sequel's four. Or in layman's terms, the two pieces of bread on either side of a sandwich, haha. I understand what you mean now. I hope everyone else does too. So whatever group you play, we'll put it on their game's list. Unless (if this ever happens) you can choose out of the 8 or something. Jo the Marten  [[Image:Mini Hunter.png|I dare you to click Mini Hunter|link=http://l4dwiki.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&user=venatorphile]]( Shriek )  ಠ_ಠ  07:40, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * If I'm really the only one who sees it this way it's cool, it's just something small I noticed that I thought that could be changed. I really do understand if you wish to switch it back, it's just that I thought it shouldn't be added at the time.JokersFlame 19:14, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

L4D Comic Page idea.
I think on the main toolbars under campaigns, should be "Left 4 Dead, Left 4 Dead 2, Left 4 Dead (Comic.), Mods". Instead of levels we put issues#'s 1-4. I plan on updating the comic quite often after it is released and plan on making that my main goal on updating. Does anyone else think this is a good idea?JokersFlame 00:41, August 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think we might just make a single page for the comic then link to the comic itself while putting pages in the gallery. Jo the Marten  [[Image:Mini Hunter.png|I dare you to click Mini Hunter|link=http://l4dwiki.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&user=venatorphile]]( Shriek )  ಠ_ಠ  07:41, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * So I shouldn't update the Comic's plot any? I mean I planned on making a big page for it seeing how we are about to get a ton of new characters and back stories for everyone.JokersFlame 19:16, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I say just wait for it to be released then it'll be decided what to do. Jo the Marten  [[Image:Mini Hunter.png|I dare you to click Mini Hunter|link=http://l4dwiki.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&user=venatorphile]]( Shriek )  ಠ_ಠ  22:43, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well they were just announced with front covers, what do you think?JokersFlame 02:41, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

September release!
Why cant they just release the DLC in september instead of October? Left4DeadFan 14:49, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Testing is probably the biggest issue, along with getting the comic done in time. Sera404 15:02, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you've ever heard the term "Valve Time", you wouldn't ask too much of them. Cybr Zombiesur.png wulf  21:32, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Valve Time indeed. I wouldn't be surprised if the release gets pushed a month later like they did with The Passing. I also hope The Sacrifice has minimal bugs because I remember how Crash Course was buggy when it came to the achievements. Hunter Punter 23:27, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

The L4D Comic
Does any of you think the comic will be released for purchese IRL? Cos i would really like to be able to read it without being online. If so i hope it will be even outside USA. And do you think it will be like with the mutations? When the new one is out the earlier will not beavailable. Hengara 20:35, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

I've made threads about it on SPUF and everything, I've even asked Chet (Didn't respond.). I'm getting the "LOL NOAP" Vibe. But! I'm happy because when I talked to Chet a few months ago the comic was only going to be 20 pages and only one issue. Now it's 4 issues and each one has like 37 pages each. I'm happy with that, even if I can't buy it.JokersFlame 19:49, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

Well (hopefully) he didnt answer either because its not decided or because he's busy. But if i know VALVe right they would probably not dissapoint the fans by not giving it out IRLHengara 20:28, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah no, once they update it, the previous section won't go away. That would just be dumb of them to do, and completely illogical. Besides, even if they do you could easily find all pages on the internet. I bet they'll put the full comic on the Valve store, too. Log Out 07:56, August 30, 2010 (UTC)

ETA?
Estimated Time of Arrival?

Zombieshooter 17:00, August 30,

dlc? oct 5th. comic? september.

Page lock?
Should the page be locked to Ip's?--XIII-DARKNESS 03:59, August 31, 2010 (UTC)


 * If the majority vote wants me to, I will. Did it with The Passing. Jo the Marten  [[Image:Mini Hunter.png|I dare you to click Mini Hunter|link=http://l4dwiki.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&user=venatorphile]]( Shriek )  ಠ_ಠ  03:17, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * If there's some sort of edit war going on, probably better to do so for a while, until the next major news of The Sacrifice. Or repeatedly unverified or spectulations from unsigned people. :3 Sera404 03:43, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that's a good idea. Some unregistered contributers are really stuck on speculating about possible melee weapons. I've undone about 8 edits like this. Nightmirage 03:46, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I even put an Edit Message saying "For the love of god, don't post stuff about Louis holding the Fire Extinguisher!"

Fire Extinguisher
Since so many people keep trying to put this in, should we include it in notes despite it only appearing in artwork, and not ingame or mentioned in any interviews? Sera404 21:58, September 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * No... I think the idea has been conveyed to them. Maybe. But no, I don't think we should mention a stupid fire exstinguisher. Imperialscouts 22:04, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nah, I don't think so either. I'm plenty happy to undo their silly edits. Nightmirage 23:11, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Midnight Riders and Release Date
I'd like to point out that the new Midnight Riders contest ends on October 4, 2010. This supports the fact it may be released on the 5th. I know, I know, but I don't think "Valve Time" will be a factor with this DLC. After all, since its concurrent with th release of the Mac version, and Valve likes to release on Tuesdays, its plausible. Plus Valve has been working on this since The Passing. Lets just hope it gets released in October though. Wizkid5000 21:50, September 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * October 1st, friend.--With care and happiness, Supermutantslayer450' YOU. LOSE. 12:08, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Correction to both of us, The Winners are announced October 4th. Wizkid5000 21:50, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Bill Picture
It looks more of a Boomer on Bill's picture as he has weird growths on his face and it's arms don't appear as strong and muscle-filled. Unless Valve said it was a tank. --Gruntijackal, the impending demise draws near 21:57, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

You kidding? It's so a Tank, I find it hard to believe someone can genuinely believe it's anything else.--With care and happiness,  Supermutantslayer450' YOU. LOSE. 22:13, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, the tongue hanging out is a giveaway enough let alone the giant hands.71.60.36.121 03:44, September 6, 2010 (UTC)

The Sacrifice Logo
I was on the L4D official site and found what could be The Sacrifice logo. I am here to ask permission if I could put the image on the page.  Pikmin  1254 


 * niiiice Zombiehunter2010 14:34, September 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ooh-hoo-hoo! Nice find! But let's wait until VALVe confirm it is the actual logo. Chris Thorpe 16:17, September 12, 2010 (UTC)

The Sacrifice?
Does anyone know the sacrifice slogan is or whatever its called I know The Passing has no one survives for ever does anyone know what The Sacrifice one is please thanks Left4DeadFan 23:25, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

No The Sacrifice tagline hasnt been reveled yet but i guess it will be with a blogpost soonHengara 23:38, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

i got a good tagline for it though :P it should be "One For All" since you have to sacrifice one at the end to save your fellow survivors :)

Switch Campaign Help?
Does anyone know how to switch the two? I don't know why the non-canon story is on top of the new one.JokersFlame 00:23, September 12, 2010 (UTC)

Only Admins can do it. You'll hafta ask one of them to do it for you. Chris Thorpe 16:19, September 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * No need to ask. I see every thing...*head spins 360 degrees*. But the deed has been done. Thanks for pointing it out. Jo the Marten  [[Image:Mini Hunter.png|I dare you to click Mini Hunter|link=http://l4dwiki.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&user=venatorphile]]( Shriek )  ಠ_ಠ  18:25, September 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * Catches ToyStory joke* Thanks Jo!JokersFlame 19:17, September 12, 2010 (UTC)

Comic Pictures
Can Anyone Change the Pictures we have on the page to the official comic versions. They are found here http://www.l4d.com/blog/post.php?id=4341 Wizkid5000 20:36, September 12, 2010 (UTC)

Actually I think we should leave them alone, and when we finally get a comic Wiki page (Hopefully every issue gets it's own page due to the size of the comcis and information we will be recivieng) then we put them in that one.JokersFlame 01:20, September 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * I have an idea. What I think is going to happen is there's going to be four comics depicting the four Survivor's stories before the game's events and tie together explaining how they met. We can use these images as buttons or something linking to their respective comics once they're released. Jo the Marten  [[Image:Mini Hunter.png|I dare you to click Mini Hunter|link=http://l4dwiki.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&user=venatorphile]]( Shriek )  ಠ_ಠ  09:14, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well we allready know they will show bills death, so i guess they either do the survivors past as a flashback, or they start with their past and then jump right to the sacrificeHengara 10:48, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * But doesnt that defeat the purpose of haveing a wiki page for it then? I mean what if somebody didn't want to read the comic, or force them have to read the whole comic to see a new Survivor like "Ray" who works with Louis. Thats like saying we can delete half the wiki and link it to the L4D Offical pages. Really my plan was having 4 comic pages for each one (Maybe one that shows overall infomation haveing links to the four offical comic articles) and then I would be writeing summaries and taking a ton of screen caps to justify the pages. I really think at the very least we should try it out with the first comic and see if it is a worth while venture.JokersFlame 20:18, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why shouldn't we just add the information we receive to the Survivor's existing pages? If someone doesn't want to read the comic then they're certainly not going to read whole articles about it. Nightmirage 20:20, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Lets just wait untill tomorrow and see how much more stuff we'll get, then see if its worth making another page for the comics allright? Hengara 21:10, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * @NightMirage Thats like saying no one will read any article if they can't currently play L4D. I mean this is a L4D Wiki, I say we should have EVERYTHING L4D Related. I mean even the offical wikipedia makes seperate pages for comics. Just an example. I mean if anything the comci might bring more people to the site and make is look more prestigious amoung the franchise related wiki's.JokersFlame 21:18, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not completely nay-saying the idea of having pages for the comic. I just think they would be kind of redundant since we'll be adding the background information to the Survivors' individual pages. Besides, we'll probably be making a bunch of new pages anyways with the information we get from the comic. Nightmirage 23:22, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Look I can promise you guys a few worthy pages, these comcis are adding a ton of story into our L4D Worlds and I for one want to be there to write summaries, add pics, write triva, and make a page everyone will love. I know for a fact we won't regret this if we just make a page, and if we try and fail we can just delete it, no harm, no foul. But this is finally a huge chance to make a non-game related Wiki page and I for one want to be there when we oversee this awesome project.JokersFlame 00:04, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Lets just wait untill tomorrow and see how much more stuff we'll get, then see if its worth making another page for the comics allright? Hengara 21:10, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * @NightMirage Thats like saying no one will read any article if they can't currently play L4D. I mean this is a L4D Wiki, I say we should have EVERYTHING L4D Related. I mean even the offical wikipedia makes seperate pages for comics. Just an example. I mean if anything the comci might bring more people to the site and make is look more prestigious amoung the franchise related wiki's.JokersFlame 21:18, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not completely nay-saying the idea of having pages for the comic. I just think they would be kind of redundant since we'll be adding the background information to the Survivors' individual pages. Besides, we'll probably be making a bunch of new pages anyways with the information we get from the comic. Nightmirage 23:22, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Look I can promise you guys a few worthy pages, these comcis are adding a ton of story into our L4D Worlds and I for one want to be there to write summaries, add pics, write triva, and make a page everyone will love. I know for a fact we won't regret this if we just make a page, and if we try and fail we can just delete it, no harm, no foul. But this is finally a huge chance to make a non-game related Wiki page and I for one want to be there when we oversee this awesome project.JokersFlame 00:04, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not completely nay-saying the idea of having pages for the comic. I just think they would be kind of redundant since we'll be adding the background information to the Survivors' individual pages. Besides, we'll probably be making a bunch of new pages anyways with the information we get from the comic. Nightmirage 23:22, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Look I can promise you guys a few worthy pages, these comcis are adding a ton of story into our L4D Worlds and I for one want to be there to write summaries, add pics, write triva, and make a page everyone will love. I know for a fact we won't regret this if we just make a page, and if we try and fail we can just delete it, no harm, no foul. But this is finally a huge chance to make a non-game related Wiki page and I for one want to be there when we oversee this awesome project.JokersFlame 00:04, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Look I can promise you guys a few worthy pages, these comcis are adding a ton of story into our L4D Worlds and I for one want to be there to write summaries, add pics, write triva, and make a page everyone will love. I know for a fact we won't regret this if we just make a page, and if we try and fail we can just delete it, no harm, no foul. But this is finally a huge chance to make a non-game related Wiki page and I for one want to be there when we oversee this awesome project.JokersFlame 00:04, September 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * This is what I was thinking guys. Make a page for the comic, give a short summary of the whole series, then this (larger images of course):

(Gallery of all the pages for Bill's comic) (Gallery of all the pages for Francis's comic) (Gallery of all the pages for Louis's comic) (Gallery of all the pages for Zoey's comic) Jo the Marten ( Shriek )  ಠ_ಠ  00:59, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Edit: Actually, I could make a template for the comic to help organize it. Maybe make it easier to put a page together. Jo the Marten  [[Image:Mini Hunter.png|I dare you to click Mini Hunter|link=http://l4dwiki.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&user=venatorphile]]( Shriek )  ಠ_ಠ  01:01, September 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * I was thinking it would be better to give every comic it's own page, I was really thinking about treating the comic like it's own campaign and every issue a chapter. Sort've like the Dead Space Wiki did with all of their comics. We make it easy to find as part of the L4D Media.http://deadspace.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Take a look how they set their comics up, although they pushed evey issue into one article for their respective series due to the amount of Dead Space comics, I feel like we can have the freedom to make a page for everycomic seeing their is a low chance of added issues after these 4. I know my argument isn't that great right now but that because sadly I lack the time to fight for this, just know I REALLY think we can make an awesome page for each issue if you just allow us, Not to mention after talking to Chet he said there was a chance (Granted don't give your hopes up like manner) of actually printing the comic for sale.JokersFlame 01:40, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Anyone want to respond to my "Dead Space" like wiki idea when we deal with this comic?JokersFlame 19:09, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Im no admin so its not up to me but to be fair i think we should wait untill the first comic is actually released, i DO like the idea but still...lets wait and see
 * Hengara 19:19, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Look we have a whole week until the next one is released. All I'm asking is that we make an awesome comic page from what we were just given 10 minutes ago and see if we can! I'm sure if we all pitch in it will be awesome! Possibly the best page on the wiki!JokersFlame 21:27, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I say we treat it just like a campaign, give each part it's own subchapter. And we should probably get starter right away. Log Out 22:46, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes oh God yes please! PLEASE do this! Let me be in nerd heaven updateing the comic pages for the next month! Make it it's own campaign!JokersFlame 23:08, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've already started of a page for this if you guys want to look some editing by myself and others has already been done and putting all four into one page would seem a better idea. Comic Page Adammadmanwilmot 23:09, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd prefer that to be the base page for the detailed plot pages, it can be a small summery of every comic and a link to the actual comic page for every individual one.JokersFlame 23:15, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Dream_Setup.jpg(Sorry for double posting) The following is the type of set up I firmly believe is the direction we should go in while creating a comic page. With detailed writings and a team such as ours I see NO reason why we can't make the comic page just as good as even our best current page. Really at the very least can we try this out? It can't be anymore useless then the "Mods" section that no one seems to update right? At least more people will read this comic then play any of the 4-5 Mods listed.JokersFlame 23:26, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I like this idea, along these line seems good. (Just a personal question only want one answer, when the hell was the mods last updated!!??) I think my choice to be slightly bias because I personally feel proud to have been able to start the comic page and having it right there would just be so awesome to me. xD Adammadmanwilmot 23:32, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I do wish you would have named it, The Sacrifice (comic). If anyone can change it from Comic, please do. Wizkid5000 23:38, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I meant the Wiki page, not the Sub-title.
 * I knew that you meant the actual page, but afraid not (not able to)...... So I improvised, sorry. Adammadmanwilmot 00:17, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * I do wish you would have named it, The Sacrifice (comic). If anyone can change it from Comic, please do. Wizkid5000 23:38, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I meant the Wiki page, not the Sub-title.
 * I knew that you meant the actual page, but afraid not (not able to)...... So I improvised, sorry. Adammadmanwilmot 00:17, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * I knew that you meant the actual page, but afraid not (not able to)...... So I improvised, sorry. Adammadmanwilmot 00:17, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

Comic Page is now able to be updated.
Please come here and try to help if you want! We need a few pics and maybe a few facts that could really help us out!JokersFlame 23:38, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

These characters should be mentioned, as well as characters in Louis's and Zoey's flashbacks all assumed to be dead (Louis's co-worker Ray, cleaning lady at Louis's work, Zoey's mom and dad).

Alive characters at the end of comic two:

Major EverlyLt. MoraSergeant Downey (who Mora talks to in beginning) Man on earphones who found Left 4 dead'ersShort woman guarding Louis and FrancisJeff - guarding Louis and Francis Black guy with Lt. MoraPena, Brooks & Davis (not seen, talked about by Lt. Mor)Rivera (with doctor, knocked out)Guard who carried out RiveraBlond Doctor

Oh Bill
When I first saw The Sacrifice's poster I noticed the light behind Bill's head. I'm pretty sure they were going for this http://www.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&biw=1503&bih=633&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=mother+mary&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

pictures 1, 2, 4, and 7 really show what I'm talking about. this is BoomahBill, I'm just too lazy to sign in 209.250.204.131 01:51, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

poster
can someone please change the photo for the scarifice on the caimpagn tab to replace that big fat question mark?
 * What are you referring to? Jo the Marten  [[Image:Mini Hunter.png|I dare you to click Mini Hunter|link=http://l4dwiki.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&user=venatorphile]]( Shriek )  ಠ_ಠ  23:38, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

He's refering to the campaign template, I believe. Sorry, my friend, but on the template, we use the achievement picture, which we currently do not have for The Sacrifice.--With care and happiness, Supermutantslayer450' YOU. LOSE. 23:59, September 30, 2010

ooh :( Zombiehunter2010 00:19, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

Now we do.

http://www.l4d.com/sacrifice/#achievements_scroll Hengara 19:00, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

Sacrifice Trailer
It. Looks. So. Epic. Opinions? 67.173.121.197 01:50, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

Epicness is nothing compared to The Sacrifice Trailer--Gabriel 95 02:04, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

Let me clear this out, the trailer had three hunters.

The first hunter and second hunter are seen stalking the group at 0:17 seconds.

At 0:18 seconds, the third hunters head is clearly seen passing by.

 Gin0 | Questions? 11:21, October 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ah, alright. Thanks for pointing that out. At first they just sorta looked like generic Infected lying around. Jo the Marten  [[Image:Mini Hunter.png|I dare you to click Mini Hunter|link=http://l4dwiki.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&user=venatorphile]]( Shriek )  ಠ_ಠ  11:56, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

No problem, mi amigo.  Gin0 | Questions? 12:01, October 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Watching it again, at the very very beginning (as in before the train even passes by) there's that group of Infected wandering around. On the ground there's something that looks like a Boomer torso. Perhaps they've gotten away with just his legs yet again like in the intro to the first game? Jo the Marten  [[Image:Mini Hunter.png|I dare you to click Mini Hunter|link=http://l4dwiki.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&user=venatorphile]]( Shriek )  ಠ_ಠ  12:05, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

The teaser was cool but I was disappointed there wasn't any dialogue. CodyBandicoot 05:03, October 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * 0:18. seems like Bill's plan was to travel down to the south were he thought there wouldnt be any infected and then get a boat to go away to...somewhere i guess...but obviusly we can see the boats are completely destroyed, hope they have a new plan... Hengara 13:11, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Friend mentioned it to me. And i almost agree somewhat, do you guys notice how the tank's leg colour's the same as their skin colour? are they naked!? lolR4rk1 17:32, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Have any of you noticed that there's a Charger in the scene where the three Hunters are present? When you first saw him, you probably thought he was the rock the hunters were lurking behind.Whachamacallit 02:53, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Um.. i looked at the scene repeatedly very closely.. its actually five hunters. R4rk1 16:49, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Could someone please tell me where the Charger is and also the other two hunters? Tongue guy 08:16, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that "rock" is really a charger, since it appeared to be breathing. At 0:12 - 0:14, where Bill offers Zoey a cigarette, Louis is seen behind WITHOUT his necktie...where'd it go? dunno... And at 0:15, bill is holding something in his left hand, what exactly? perhaps some fireworks?....Mister avatar 11:12, October 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Could someone please tell me where the Charger is and also the other two hunters? Tongue guy 08:16, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that "rock" is really a charger, since it appeared to be breathing. At 0:12 - 0:14, where Bill offers Zoey a cigarette, Louis is seen behind WITHOUT his necktie...where'd it go? dunno... And at 0:15, bill is holding something in his left hand, what exactly? perhaps some fireworks?....Mister avatar 11:12, October 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that "rock" is really a charger, since it appeared to be breathing. At 0:12 - 0:14, where Bill offers Zoey a cigarette, Louis is seen behind WITHOUT his necktie...where'd it go? dunno... And at 0:15, bill is holding something in his left hand, what exactly? perhaps some fireworks?....Mister avatar 11:12, October 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that "rock" is really a charger, since it appeared to be breathing. At 0:12 - 0:14, where Bill offers Zoey a cigarette, Louis is seen behind WITHOUT his necktie...where'd it go? dunno... And at 0:15, bill is holding something in his left hand, what exactly? perhaps some fireworks?....Mister avatar 11:12, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Achievements
Hey guys. Valve have released 5 achievement images and goals so is it possible to put the Complete The Sacrifice image in for campaign image and put rest on Achieve page? Oh yeah, barrel roll. Emile-A249 22:15 October 1 (UTC)
 * Little slow on the update, aren't ya there? Jo the Marten  [[Image:Mini Hunter.png|I dare you to click Mini Hunter|link=http://l4dwiki.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&user=venatorphile]]( Shriek )  ಠ_ಠ  21:05, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * dude...its done allready:PHengara 21:06, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

Is there anyone handy enough to photoshop out the tick from the achievement picture? Darn their inconsistencies with the campaign achievement icons this time round... Dunno how you feel but the tick would make it look kinda lame as a "representative of the campaign" icon. 94.0.61.122 10:27, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Remove the check mark you mean? But why would we do that? If it's part of the image, why change it? Jo the Marten  [[Image:Mini Hunter.png|I dare you to click Mini Hunter|link=http://l4dwiki.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&user=venatorphile]]( Shriek )  ಠ_ಠ  10:34, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * It bugs the heck outta me that they suddenly changed the campaign-completion achievement design by throwing in the check mark. Unlike the other icons it screams "WELL DONE" rather than "this is what the campaign is about", making it inappropriate for a general campaign-representing icon in the list. Alas. I might just be crazy though. 94.0.61.122 02:39, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * On a somewhat related note, the Supreme Sacrifice says to "complete" the Sacrifice, not "survive". I know this was already mentioned on the wikipedia, and I'm sure nobody can really answer this question, but does that mean that even if you die, without being the sacrifice, will you get the achievement... LazyLord777 21:42, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Im pretty sure since one of you must die it wouldnt be fair to that person if playing 4 player co-op.Sniperteam82308 22:46, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I was thinking if somebody else died during the finale, as opposed to sacrificing yourself, or surviving.

Bills voice actor for The Sacrifice
OMFG Wow I just saw the campaign poster for The Sacrifice it looks so epic lol erm does anyone know if Bill still has his same voice actor like with edited lines for The Sacrifice or is it a new actor al together please?

its the same actor as before and they recorded new audio, one of the clips has been released allready, dont Think VALVe would have gotten a new actor for something like this.Hengara 13:04, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Hands!
Just thought I mention this, but did anyone else notice that at 0:06 when the train goes past, a dead infected's hand sticks up and shows the four fingered hand for L4D, and then at 0:07, 2 of the fingers curl in for L4D2. This could be a reference that it can be played for both games.Tongue guy 15:23, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, we know. It's been mentioned MANY times. But it doesn't belong on this page. It's on the trailer's notes section. Jo the Marten  [[Image:Mini Hunter.png|I dare you to click Mini Hunter|link=http://l4dwiki.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&user=venatorphile]]( Shriek )  ಠ_ಠ  15:30, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry about that, not my fault this is what happens when your logged on and your friend decides to do editing.Tongue guy 08:13, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Um, if your account is logged on and your friend edits using your account, that falls into your responsibility, I'm afraid. So better hope your friend doesn't get you banned in the future. :o Sera404 08:20, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't worry the problem won't happen again. 90.192.144.45 14:54, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

The Sacrifice
hmmm it doesnt look like The Sacrifice is out is it released on the 9th for xbox live I thought it was today as people were telling me it was.

It's updating it to the PC version right now, I don't know about the Xbox version though.78.109.186.10 18:46, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

I know when it is comong out for Xbox Live it'll be later tonight :)

Here's some info on the l4d1 version, I personally don't remember hearing any new lines, the last part of the finale seems to have a never ending number of tanks as many as 4 appeared at one time, the HMG that was also in The Passing can be used but doesn't seem to make any noise (it also doesn't gib), there is a jukebox in the same place as in The Passing, the hunting rifle now behaves like the l4d2 version (as mentioned before), there are no new weapons or infected (they all use their l4d1 models), but there are the explosive barrels mentioned in the achievements.78.109.186.10 20:46, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

What about the captured tank? The one inside a container you have to open to continue? Also, the HMG makes sound to me... And there ARE new lines!

Wait, I see XBOX was mentioned... were you talking about that?

Zombieshooter 01:54, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

The Xbox version isn't out yet. It's getting annoying waiting for this. For real real, not for play play. DAMN YOU MICROSOFT.209.250.204.131 02:09, October 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * You all do realize you guys got The Passing before PC did, right? Please stop the dramatics. It's not like you'll NEVER get to play it. I know it's hard but you'll make it through. :/ Jo the Marten  [[Image:Mini Hunter.png|I dare you to click Mini Hunter|link=http://l4dwiki.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&user=venatorphile]]( Shriek )  ಠ_ಠ  03:31, October 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * To be fair, you guys atleast got The Passing on the right day.
 * To be fair, you guys atleast got The Passing on the right day.

The Sacrifice Midnight release
Its 10;22 over here in the UK Could it be released at midnight over here when its 7 in America anyone know please tell me I have been trying to find out all day??

HAHAHA No. Always Remember: VALVE TIME. --AleximMose 21:26, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Why do they do this to us. Today I went out of my way just to get to gamestop for microsoft points now what do I do with them.Sniperteam82308 21:29, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Wait. It'll get here eventually. PC users already have it. Imperialscouts 21:39, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Ahh well brother got my console banned today for hacking in MW2 and Halo Reach.Sniperteam82308 21:41, October 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * Dude... you have my pitty. Or sympathy if that sounds better to you. Imperialscouts 21:54, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just be lucky you weren't hacking on the PC or you'd be hearing from Dr. Hax 174.3.23.126 01:31, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

I wasnt my little brother was and I would like the pity please along with some orange juice so I can reagin some blood cookies if you know what that means.Sniperteam82308 01:51, October 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't know what you just said but now I'm hungry 174.3.23.126 03:31, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Thoughts on the DLC
What's your opinion on the new DLC? Lightna 11:35, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

God, it sucked. There was nothing original or exciting about this DLC. The port finale was EXACTLY the same as the Passing. The only reason to buy it was for No Mercy, but that wasn't for L4D1 owners. Waste of money, IMO. Donuthead7310 21:37, October 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * I liked it. Lots of neat new dialogue, new maps and such, and No Mercy port, even if it has a lot of bugs. But then, as a PC player, I didn't have to pay for either of the two DLCs. :D Really though, you expected Port Finale to take place on a different area? Didn't you read the comic? :D Sera404 21:54, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, what I did expect was for them to change the map a little bit. They basically went the "Infinity Ward" route and recycled a map. Doesn't really matter to me, much, though because Valve is working hard on Portal 2, and that's fine with me.Donuthead7310 02:49, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

besides the 50g achievements, i feel like i got crash course again.

Short nothing new but lines it killed bill and I have played it over and over no director I guess because nothing changes. And it pretty much ignored the comic with parts like Louis's leg Bill's real death I thought it was the worst thing I've spent my money on.I'd take the free comic over the DLC although it would be nice to show major parts of the DLC like the tank in the train and stuff. God damn trailer tricked me I thought Bills death would be CGI cutscene(I know against what Valve does but I thought it would be a nice change.)Sniperteam82308 22:25, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

New Mutation
The next new mutation is "Hunting Party". Who wants to take a guess at what that'll be? (P.S: I think I already know.)--With care and happiness,  Supermutantslayer450' YOU. LOSE. 21:48, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Instead of Survivors, you play as Hunters. Better get to the next safe room by jumping all over the place before the AI Survivors get you! (just kidding) :D Sera404 21:55, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Best Mutation ever--Gabriel 95 01:46, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

Achivement help!?!
I just played the sacrafice when I looked at the achivements, my kills for Zombie Genocidest and The littlest Genocidest were reset can someone tell if this has happened to anyone else or am I now being forced to redo them. Tongue guy 08:59, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

TAAAAANK Mutation
Does anyone know if that New Mutation will become permanant since its to do with The Sacrifice?

What do you mean permanent? Like what they did with Realism Versus? No. I don't see why they would unless it was by popular demand. Log Out 22:37, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

Technically it is permanent because of the SourceMod mod called TankRush. Lightna 23:18, October 9, 2010 (UTC)