Talk:The Infected

Cause for the Infection
My theory for the infection is that it is directly related to cows and fast food. I think the cows were given something to increase production or something which in turn were sent to restuarants. Eaten directly by future boomers and common(did not eat as much). The virus creating special infected mutates from what the host has in their body(tank-perhaps steriods)(hunter-drugs)(boomer-ate hamburgers a lot, direct contact with the source of the infection)(smookers-chemicals in cigerates and cigars.) This is my first comment so I don't know if I did something wrong our what. sidenote-cows farmhouse finale thing or some other level(dont have game) are dead in piles and in dead air a poster says to contact security if u have been in contact with livestock in the past 48 hours. i dont firmly believe this but it sounds kind of logical. no theory on witch yet (please leave comments on this page) XboxBoxLiveGuy321 03:39, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

It sounds plausible but i it sounds very simlar to the dead rising moral that america is consuming too much food and that someone try a new expermential production idea that goes wrong turning everybody into zombies.

Also wouldnt this be more relevant put on to the infection talk page?--Spygon 09:47, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I have 4 theories: The military was trying to make a type of chemical that could enhance a human's body to make super soldiers. Obviously, it didn't work. A test subject escaped, and infected a couple hundred other people. Then, the virus went airborne, and the survivors are immune. My next theory is that an undiscovered type of insect found it's way into civilization, bit someone, and then layed eggs in the person it bit. Anyone the original victim came in contact with became infected, and anyone they came in contact with got infected, too. Finally, everyone in the world, except the survivors, got infected. My next theory is that it was a benign type of cancer, until a person that was born with it, along with a bunch of other problems, then got several STDs, and those viruses mixed, amplifying the affect of the cancer. It then became an extremely contagious thing, being able to transfer the disease by touch. Finally, the disease spread over seas, and infected everyone else, except a few that had a natural immunity to the virus. My final theory is it was a type of parasite that somehow found its way to someone, latched onto them, and then got into the host's brain stem, controlled them, and had them infect, or lay eggs in this case, and then the process repeats itself. And, in all of these ideas, all the people that eventually became a special infected had another disease before this, like a certain type of cancer, or a tumor, or something... Hopefully, you saw that in each of these scenarios there was one original person who spread it to everyone else. That is because I always thought it was a little freakier, thinking that this whole epidemic that f***ed up the world started 'cause of one person. If you didn't notice that pattern, sign yourself up for some special Ed classes at your local community center. SuperMutantSlayer450

good idead its the most beliveable way. - BE4ST100

The Zombie Dog
Okay, okay, I didn't see any harm in putting it as an otherwise invisible comment in the article, but I'll ask here; can someone please find the names of this supposed Zombie Dog's sound files? If they aren't found and confirmed, I'd suggest that that section of the article be removed. We don't need something here that goes entirely without confirmation of any sort. - §tigma-231 ¤ ৳ here's a hole in my neighbourhood [ talk  ][ cont ] 02:10, 22 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Cited it. The files are clearly labeled. Creepydude SniperSay Some'at Here!  02:45, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I don't have the PC version, so I couldn't do it myself. - §tigma-231 ¤ ৳ here's a hole in my neighbourhood [ talk  ][ cont ] 02:56, 22 January 2009 (UTC)


 * "Zombie Dog" is very obviously the original codename for the Hunter. It's because he crawls like a dog. All of the special infected had different original codenames (Tank/Hulk, Smoker/Tongue Zombie, Boomer/Explode Zombie). You can hear these same "zombie dog" sounds used for the Hunter in earliest beta footage of Left 4 Dead (See: ). As is plainly evident, Valve never intended on using these sounds for anything other than the Hunter. In fact all of the special infected originally used different sounds. Since it's clear that the there was never going to be any zombie canine, I'll take the liberty of removing said nonsense claim myself. 71.194.180.133 03:29, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Infected animals

 * Does anyone else think L4d would've been better with infected animals, like maybe an infected wolf or bear? The bear would be totally badass. Of course, no stupid animals. Because, would anyone want to seriously fight a zombie cat? Or an infected cow? I didn't think so. But the Blood Harvest campagain, there are dead (maybe infected) cows.

Actually, i've been thinking that this would be a great way to make every campaign more individual, in each campaign you'll encounter infected animals as well as human beings.

I didn't come up with anything fitting any other than Blood Harvest thought, but i thought the idea could be as follows: As the Green Flu is infecting more and more people, CEDA has to put up some new laws. One of these is to kill any pet that seems able to carry the Flu, this includes a lot of cows around the area of Blood Harvest.

But there is one farmer who doesn't beleive in this Flu, and thinks it'll all blow over in a matter of days. so rather than letting CEDA kill his dear stock, he opens the barn and chases them out into the woods, including a bull.

And of course, these cows are sooner or later infected with the Green Flu, but since these animals are so big they can handle this better than most humans. So, rather than turning into zombies like humans do, only their mind is effected, and they go mad (yes i know, Mad Cow disease), so every now and then in BH, you'll be attacked be mad cows, And of course, in the finale, or maybe fourth chapter, you'll get to a sertain point in the game where you hear someone firing a shotgun, when you get a little closer (still from a distance) you see a farmer trying to kill a bull running around untill it gores him down. And then, it notice your group.

This being said, i'd just like to add that i DO like the idea of adding animals to the games, but the only thing that's ever going to happen is if they make a L4D3, or if they remake what they allready have, and i don't know if most of the fancomunity would like any of those options. Hengara 22:15, April 10, 2011 (UTC)

Clarity
You honestly believe that this:

"However, the Tank can still move as fast as a Survivor, but not when the survivor has full health" 

makes more sense than this:

"The tank can not move as fast as a Survivor at full health, but can keep up with, and possibly even catch, a wounded Survivor."

I must not be speaking the same English as you, then. --MadDawg2552 16:06, 26 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Hopefully my new edit is easier to understand. --MadDawg2552 16:55, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Who the fuck would care? If you can understand it, its FINE --Kirby888 22:27, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

What if someone who doesnt completly get the English Launguager read it? Would be a bit hard to figure out.

Why the fuck would someone who doesnt understand english well be on an english website? 75.5.233.53 21:31, October 23, 2010 (UTC)Commonsense

because English is the global language that's used globally?

First of all, sign your posts. Secondly, NO it is not. Statistically speaking, Chinese is the most commonly spoken language on the planet. Xeno the Hedgehog 18:34, May 10, 2011 (UTC)

uhh, I did not said most numerous, I said global as in most wide spread. I'm a Chinese myself btw. China has a large population but we all concentrate on a few countries, English has less population but they spread to all 6 continents, and all non-English countries take English as the foreign language course. Wen, May 11, 2011

New form of special infected
I notice in L4D2 that the specials have same looks and I was angry with this. They should at least change clothing of them and different facial looks.--Kirby888 19:51, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Then it would make it hard for people to adapt and perhaps it wouldn't feel right. Besides, Valve may end up changing things anyway. Notice the difference in L4D1 since it was first announced? -- Five Dog ( Talk ){ Updates } 21:59, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Now you're just arguing for the sake of argument. There is nothing wrong with using the same Special Infected as last time. They shouldn't have to completely reskin them, and I don't want them to, either. I prefer the old looks. I mean, why fix it if it isn't broken? - §tigma-231 ♠ o  ƒ  my caliber { τalk }{¢ont } 22:19, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep, that's what I'm saying. Just that, maybe the survivors or something will change slightly in appearance along the way. -- Five Dog ( Talk ){ Updates } 22:23, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Well if it is a new game mine as well have some new look for the zombies oh sorry SPECIAL ZOMBIES so no one can get pissy bout crap or anything --Kirby888 22:26, 13 June 2009 (UTC) WAIT BEFORE ANYONE FUSES AT ME there INFECTED
 * They're. Someone's in a bad mood. - §tigma-231 ♠ o  ƒ  my caliber { τalk }{¢ont } 22:45, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

GREAT NEWS they may change some feature looks on Special infected! They may keep some of the same looks. Dont beilive well they said the old hunter look doesnt match with south because of the temperature there. A hoodie in the south will burn you up. YAY just wanted you to know.--Kirby888 05:27, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hoodies are fine down South, as long as it isn't the summer months. I live in the South, and I see plenty of people wearing hoodies (including myself). I can be comfortable in a hoodie up 'till about 80 degrees, especially if I'm not in the sun. The only thing that makes hoodies a pain sometimes is the humidity, but if L4D2 takes place a few weeks after L4D1, that wouldn't be a problem. I've been running around in my hoodie since early September, and nowadays it's cold enough for me to want to wear it every day. Sorry 'bout the rant; I just don't like hearing people talk as if hoodies are unheard of in the South. --Thollos 01:33, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

Anymore special infected?
It feels like valve is pretty much done with special infected and not puting in anymore other than the charger in L4D2. Has anyone heard any info or seen pictures of any more special infected???--Kirby888 04:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * No, they've said they're adding two other Special Infected. - §tigma-231 ♠ o  ƒ  my caliber { τalk }{¢ont } 04:35, 13 July 2009 (UTC)


 * It has been fully confirmed that Valve will be adding a total of 3 new Infected in Left 4 Dead 2, there's an interview that doesn't tell much other than the number in IGN.com. In PC Gamer August 2009, PC Gamer gave them a quick "wish-list" that they think it will be interesting to see, they mentioned stuff like Escort mode, a new grenade, and guess what, a new Special Infected called Haggard that throws stuff at Survivors. But Valve doesn't work for them and doesn't have to use their ideas. If they found something they like they will obviously add it. Anyway, just hold tight I'm pretty sure the next 2 will be released really soon. Zikkun 06:19, 13 July 2009 (UTC)


 * As you've probably already seen, another one was announced, The Spitter. We just have to find out one more. TheCreaturenator16 04:59, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Wow, how long have you been sleeping? Heh. We know of the Spitter already since 3 days ago, I just got the full high quality picture and the Swamp Fever poster. Zikkun 05:05, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I was addressing Kirby. And, yes, I knew about it. Also, one note, that picture is awesome. TheCreaturenator16 05:08, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


 * The Spitter or the campaign poster? :o The Spitter kind of creeps me out with her neck and that, all the other Special Infected are different than humans but this one is like Valve asking us to say "what the hell is that...". Zikkun 05:13, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Le Spitter. Elle est tres horrible. (The Spitter. She is really horrible.) I love that! Kind of disturbing, but still awesome. TheCreaturenator16 05:16, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * For me, the spitter is alittle bit too' disturbing. I almost jumped when i first saw her picture. Dabrules 11:15, 23 July 2009


 * I like the Spitter's looks. Makes her more creepy. Oh and does anyone seen any videos of her in it. All i see is her spit but i want to se her face. --Kirby888 21:32, 26 July 2009 (UTC)


 * yeah, that spitter is definitely the most freaky looking of all the infected. i too, was like "WHOA" when i saw her in the trailer Zorakirby 18:52, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

Just an Idea
What if the new special infected from Left 4 Dead 2 could be put into Left 4 Dead 1 with a Downloadable Content after Left 4 Dead 2 comes out. Just an Idea.


 * P.S. If anyone thinks this section is a stupid waste then delete it.--75.23.228.24 23:52, 18 July 2009 (UTC)


 * possible, unlikely, but possible.

Hmmmm, that might be pretty cool, but it might not happen. Hope it does! Camster103 01:01, October 10, 2009 (UTC)

I wish they would put on of them before the game comes out. you know, one for the fans! Or one of the campagins or one meele weapon. That would be cool

If they're gonna add another set of new SI in L4D 2, then the rumor about the haggard infected is real then?? BooM13 13:37, October 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * Even if there were any more Special Infected to be announced, that says nothing about the fanart that is the Haggard. SteveZombie 22:10, October 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * i hope i wont happen Left 4 dead is a Basic zombie game for me and Left 4 dead 2 is an advanced zombie game to me.--Wulfblood 22:44, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

the problem with this would be that the maps in L4D1 aren't built to support the new infected as there aren't many long corridors or alleys for the charger etc


 * actually there are some, just not that many. GeneralOwnage55 The Message Box 13:34, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

New Special Infected!
BE HOLD THE BEAUTIFUL SPITTER!!!!!!

http://www.gamersyde.com/pop_images_left_4_dead_2-11210-8.html

The new Special infected!!!!!!

--Kirby888 00:38, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Doesnt look very beautiful looks like something from silent hill have birth to it Riley Heligo 09:10 29 August 2009

My most want-to-use special infected in L4D 2 is the Charger. :D looks so totally badass. xD BooM13 13:39, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

you can kill someone by ordering them to stare at her face i even can't take a peek!!!Crazy al594 13:27, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Found Proof
I think we can safely say now that the Infected are in fact notundead. I found this picture, and the texts states that the Infected are still alive.

http://img265.imageshack.us/i/p1010359.jpg/

New Uncommon Common Infected?
A Clown Infected for the Dark Carnival level.

http://www.l4d.com/blog/images/posts/019/NickandClown.jpg

The name of the file hints at this too.

--MachienzoPrimos 03:43, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * They aren't technically an Uncommon Common because Uncommon Common have some kind of special ability (fireproof, bulletproof, etc) whereas the Clowns just appear to be Common Infected with a clown costume. For all we know they could amount to the same as the Infected wearing Hospital gowns in No Mercy. But don't worry, if in the future he's shown to have a special ability, we'll gladly put it up, but for now, he at least has a spot on the Common Infected page. ;)

Jo the Marten ( Shriek ) 03:56, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

The clown infected is an uncommon common infected. It has a special ability that calls in a very small horde when it attacks you, since their squeaky clown shoes makes a noise that attracts the horde. But the horde it calls is not very large unlike of the Boomer. BooM13 13:40, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

A New Si has been confirmed, guys
and show this. It wont let me create the page, so here you go. Strong I

Maybe a new Special Infected?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI23Ua_An5M&feature=related I think he was planned for L4D and deleted. Maybe he's in L4D2? (Sorry, for my bad english) --78.51.27.126 17:34, September 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * Nah, that's a fan made infected. But it's a good concept art anyway =) Aratinga A., 16:17, 24 September 2009, (UTC)

nope it won a fan art contest twas never planned it just won a competition

New Infected Skins!
New Infected Skins!

These skins are so sick! Smoker, Hunter, and Boomer have all changed! First lets get to the big big news!

HUNTER IS KEEPING HOOD IN L4D2!

SMOKER IS NEW UGLIEST INFECTED! HE IS MORE HORRIBLE THEN EVER WITH A SECOND TOGUE! (It just flops around)

People are saying boomer may be a girl now but I doubt it. I saw it with a white tee on thats about it. It was far away.

Go to Gametrailers.com and type in L4D2 check all the newest videos.--Kirby888 19:24, October 10, 2009 (UTC)

Smoker has about 5 tongues now, actually. =) I'd like to see him strangle all 4 Survivors at once. Jo the Marten  ♠  ( Shriek )  ಠ_ಠ  17:33, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

That's a good intro scene idea! Valve should implent that idea into the intro sceneMr.shadow 08:53, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

The Spitter is much more disturbing than the Smoker. Haven't you seen her deformed jaws? And her extended neck? D:. The Smoker only has those bumps and that extra tongue. xD BooM13 13:42, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

There's speculation, and then there's this
"The reason why they walk on all fours could be that it's hard to get around in the mud using just their legs, so to help them traverse, they adapted by using all four limbs to move. Or it could be an Infected half way turned into a Hunter." Seriously? This theory has even less basis than for the theory that the Spitter was influenced by Jenny Romanchuk's webcomic. What's with all this 'half way turned into this completely different Infected' nonsense? SteveZombie 23:58, October 12, 2009 (UTC)

I agree. They just walk on all fours and now they're "half way turned into a Hunter"? lol. I'd agree with the fact that they are different versions of the originals SI. BooM13 13:48, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

As do I. I don't understand how the idea of these new Infected being half versions of the others came up. It makes no logical sense, considering they came after the other Infected and the timing of the second game is set after the first. We would have seen them by now had they been early versions. If they had to be related, they would probably be further mutated versions, considering their new features do seem like better forms of their old attacks (Charger's faster than a Tank, Jockey can move instead of being a sitting duck like a Hunter, Spitter's goo actually harms unlike a Boomer's), but that's still a big leap to take. Considering it's a different environment and a different period of time, the idea that these are just new strains of the Infection caused by environmental changes is more than a little likely, and it sorta drives me nuts when I see people assuming that these new Specials are just partial old Specials. Wave Maker 23:07, November 3, 2009

Well, here's a thought, I'm not saying I agree, but, the infection has hit the south two weeks after it hit PA. Therefore, these newer SI have only had ONE week to evolve instead of the two weeks in L4D1. However, a few infected have been able to fully evolve. But, as I said before, I do not believe this I'm only stating that it's possible. --LazyLord777 18:26, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

I say he new SI are just infected the old survivors BY CHANCE didnt encounter. We shouldnt say they werent there at the time, after all, there is the X-ray of the elongated neck, suggesting at one time atleast, the presence of a spitter. To help further my theory, I need the occupation the jockey had before the infection. Then with the lack of SWAT zombies, the city was hit to hard and fast for a retaliation like that. Then with CEDA, the town was off the priorities list, or they were evac'd fast. No clowns, no fair; no mudders, no swamp; Get the idea?

What I don't get is why there wasnt any infected soldiers? You can easily see the army's effect in The Parish, so why not there? I guess thats what the The Passing is for, an overrun military base. I guess we just hafta wait.--Prof. 19:35, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

To the nameless person: I guess that would make a bit of sense, though, considering how often the L4D1 survivors run into the original SI, not to mention how often the L4D2 survivors run into the newer SI, it still seems a bit fishy that they would be able to traverse through 5 levels of 4 campaigns (not to mention 2 levels in Crash Course) without running into one newer SI if the newer SI were actually there. Still, it's a good idea. Wave Maker 01:10, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

Half forms of special infected could come from mutated forms of the infection. However, some of the stuff they are saying is stupid. The mudman cant be a half-hunter, because it only shows up in one campain. Also, the spitter cant be stemmed off from the boomer, because they are completly different bodily fluids. One is acid, the other is bile.

Moustachio
It can be the Dead Center Uncommon Common infected. It's just see the L4D2 achieviments. Aratinga A.  Ѭ  , 11:07, October 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * Mustachip's Dark Carni's mascot. I remember it in an interview, but they've changed his name. I know it's him though, because he's still a peanut.  Strong Intelligent 

Infection Process and Symptoms
I know this is my first post on THIS site, but i've been watching alot of L4D videos on youtube, and I was beginning to think, what are the symptoms, and how does it happen. As the regular and special infect are so different, there has to be a seperate process for each type of infected. Give me what you think, and i'll make an base symptoms area for approval of admins. I will NOT include rediculous ideas like: "they're retarded and it is very contagious." or "they were all idiots and hunger for brains of geeks." or any other rediculous hoo-ha. Please put ideas for the symptoms of and the process below, remember, it is a different process for each, maybe the same symptoms, but a seperate process. --Prof. 14:55, October 15, 2009 (UTC)


 * Most Important Symptom: A strange hatred for army vetrans, bikers, IT Tech Guys, and Girls in College.Imperialscouts 23:04, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

Incubation period of at least 1 hour(evidenced by the church guy as he didn't start mutating until about one hour after he was bitten. Fainting the iris and pupils of the eyes even to the point they disapear. Vomiting and most likely producing a decent amount of foam,being a mutated form of rabiës. Increased muscle growth and energy and most likely lots of adrenaline. Possibly chronic pain. Extreme mutations to the point that makes the infected humans not human anymore, but animals instead. Mr.shadow 09:02, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

Upon first contact: Will have uncontrollable chills and high fever for 3 days. Then they start to become foamy at the mouth after those 3 days and their sense of sight, smell and hear become more advanced(evidence of how they respond to car alarms and boomer bile). Then develop pupiless eyes and all brain activity ceases, instead replaced with a base desire to spread the virus. Overall they become quite like rabid animals. :D BooM13 13:53, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

I'm gonna put my own ideas in but so I won't be biast I will NOT include them in my conclusion.

From what I have seen, symptoms include (Universally among infected): High fever, vomiting, headaches, Extreme aggression and irritibility, adrenelin is put in overdrive when a person or object is viewed as not infected, trauma/loss of sanity, various internal recombobulations or whatever the words are, various spasms (During transformation), pale skin, loss of appetite, increased lung capacity, bloodlust, loss of self preservation, gagging, hypersensitivity, and coughing. Oh, and a tendency to burn as if covered in oil even when totally dry.

Now for special infected starting with everyones favorite barf bag!

Boomer: Cysts, constipation, burping, projectile vomiting, extreme weight gain, explosive diarehha (when killed), and rips in skin. I do believe the stomach becomes the source of bile, in a form of modified stomach acid, and as a puss filled bump does not pulsate, the cysts have additional bile in them.

Hunter: Loss of eyes, increased muscle mass, alot more lung capacity, hypersensitivty focused towards hearing, growth of claws, screaming for no visible reason, and a tendency to crawl. I can believe that a regular infecteds strength comes from adrenelin, not increased muscle growth, but no man, unless he had adrenelin instead of blood, could jump over a 2 or 3 storie building without atleast increased muscle mass towards the legs.

Smoker: dry cough, excreting unknown gases from who knows where (not the buttox cuz the intestines have disconnected), vomiting out intestines, puss filled lumps, spine elongation, appears to deflate when skin ruptures deep enough, and increased muscles in abdominal region (How else can they pull a survivor so far?). I believe the intestines of fused with the tongue which causes increased stability, yet I still have no explanation for the smoke around them.

Witch: Extreme depression, hatred of many things especially sudden light and loud noises, finger elongation and hardening of additional ligaments in the fingers, increased nail growth, EXTREME bloodlust to anything that startles it, and whitening of the hair. I dunno what causes the witch to go in such a rage, but I figure the crying is the depression.

Tank: Extreme upper body muscle growth, rage at the sight of anything thats not infected, heart tends to explode from a combination of stress, frustration, and adrenelin rush, strengthening of fingers, and performs better when on fire.

That sums it up and until L4D2 comes out I won't do the charger, spitter, jockey, and any surprise special infected.--Prof. 01:27, October 21, 2009 (UTC)


 * Hey, small thing: you said alot. It's two words, a lot. As I said, small thing. Imperialscouts 04:02, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

I have a reason for why the surviors can survive so much; they DID get infected, just in a different way, the infection made them stronger, faster, and able to fight even in their final minutes of life, and that is also why they can keep running for such long distances, I mean from the top of georgia all the way to lousiana? and for the original survivors all the way from ohio to alabama? that is just ridiculous on foot in just 4 days?(maybe for longer idk) Who else would be able to cover that distance in that amount of time. I thought about thins during history class when we were learning about the black plague, people that were inmmune got infected with somethign else in the lungs (still deadly:P)05:53, November 15, 2009 (UTC)Merpmaster25

not to mention rescue vehichles moving them from place to place right? Sgt. Maine

Maybe the new Special Infected had something a bit like this:

Spitter: Increased acidic levels from a mixture of the Infection and stomach acid. Symptoms include stomach ache, gastric pains in the abdomen and maybe strengthening of the gullet to withstand the acid.

Charger: Weakening of left arm and strengthening of the right arm due to a parasite in the right arm sucking out all the protein mass of the left arm.

Jockey: Dwarfism(sorry if mispelled wrongly) and decrease of calcium in spine giving it its hunched appearence and maybe the calcium goes into other parts such as the feet which may have led to the increase in jump height.

Im thinking that for the special infected, its really just a (relitively) gradual change from normal to the special infected. With the zombies, again, its just a change that takes place over time. The amount of time required could depend on any number of facters, such as the way they were infected, what they are becoming, stress levels, and lots of other internal body things. I kind of think of the infection as being almost an inteligent being. The infection, not individual infected. The common infected spread the disease, (possibly aided by a few special infected) while the special infected are a kind of strike force that take out anything that resists infection (i.e. the survivors). The deciding factor for the type of infected could be dependent on what the infection feels is nessicary to get the job done. The infection could be constantly mutating in order to find better ways to deal with threats to itself. Not quite sure about the witch, but she could be some kind of way to find sugar (sugar could be an important resource for the infection, such as the actual pathogen requiring a large amount to make it up). Of course, it's all speculative, and, when I talk about the infection being inteligent, I mean in an instinctual kind of way, brought about by evolution (think very advanced AI). ---Vaxnil

Possible New Uncommon Common?
Except one that actually makes it EASIER for us rather than a hindrance? In some of the new Hard Rain videos on http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/left4dead2/videos.html?filter=most_recent, especially Garage Sale and the Finale, you see Construction Infected. Maybe it makes them easier to see in the dark? And maybe their hardhat makes them more invulnerable to headshots? MoltenPanther 12:12, October 22, 2009 (UTC)

Those are f**** awesome!Mr.shadow 12:41, October 22, 2009 (UTC)

yeah i saw him too. So shall we put him in the article? Aratinga A.  Ѭ  , 14:06, October 22, 2009 (UTC)


 * While it is likely they are Uncommon, I don't think we can really say that they are in the article until it's actually confirmed, especially given the possible arguments against it. And as for the headshot speculation, I'm pretty sure a hardhat would offer little if any protection against bullets; they're not supposed to be bulletproof or even resistant. They're to safeguard against blunt force, not penetration. SteveZombie 16:26, October 22, 2009 (UTC)


 * As you may have heard by now, someone suggested the idea that they are wearing earmuffs and not attracted to pipe bombs.Imperialscouts 22:02, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well there are five uncommon common now. But we've never seen anything for Dead Center...are the RIOT Infected for Dead Center. I mean, since it is a mall, there would be security guards. It'd make more sense if they were in Dead Center EllisxZoey


 * Riot cops in a shopping mall... just doesn't really sit right with me. SteveZombie 23:16, October 22, 2009 (UTC)


 * Why are we assuming these Infected are construction workers? Being that Heavy Rain is set in an Industrial Park (by the looks of it anyway) it would make more sense to just call them Infected Workers. Safety Vest and Hardhat does not mean construction worker. I've been through an Industrial Park, many workers wear safety vests and hardhats. And where did the idea that they were gonna tear down the sugar mill come from? Mr. Someguy 02:48, October 23, 2009 (UTC)


 * The idea the the Construction Workers came to tear down the sugar mills came from Chet himself. He even calls them construction workers.


 * In the l4d2 newest trailer, in last scenes, u see Ellis punching the riot infected in the Dead Center campaign. Aratinga A. Ѭ, 09:58, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

Appearance of Page
To me, the Infected page is not put together very well. I think that all the Special Infected should be grouped together. The Witch and Screamer look rather out of place in the Uncommon Infected section. And the pictures of the Special Infected are too big. I tried making some smaller. And I think we should use the concept art of the Charger on the page because the screenshot of his is somewhat blurry. I also think that the special Infected pictures need to all have a white background to them, not grey and white, it just, bothers me. Okay, give me your thoughts/concerns. 74.193.176.197 21:17, October 23, 2009 (UTC)Pikmin1254
 * Yeah, I don't edit here, but I come here every now and then, and this page always bugs me. For starters, The Screamer should be in his own section, as he was cut from the game, so listing him with other infected just seems odd. I think splitting between Playable and AI-controlled is the main problem. I think the more obvious choice of having Common Infected (with a Horde subheading), Uncommon Infected (with the different types as subheadings) and then Special Infected (with the different types as subheadings) would work much better than it does at the moment. I think then, a mention of The Screamer (with link to main article) in the "Behind The Scenes" or "Trivia" section is more than enough considering how little we actually know about him, and how irrelevant he is now to the actual game itself. --Fantomas 14:57, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

I agree with these suggestions. I also have 1 more: If you look at the Versus portion of each campaign level’s page, you have “Overall tips” which are good, but are a bit redundant on every single page. As for the individual strategies for each SI, they tend to be too similar as well. Instead I would like to include a link on these pages to this page where we put a “Versus” section that briefly describes things such as controls, and “Overall Tips” so that the level’s can link to it. This would cut the redundancy for those who hate seeing it over and over again. As for the individual SI strategies, something I’d like to see included are good stake out points for each one. For instance, Hunters could have a “Pounce From” section that point out a few good locations to leap from to deal damage. Obviously for the Smoker you could note the pull points. Good Boomer hiding places, etc. etc.

Also, after the link to “Overall Tips” you could have a more detailed version of Overall Tips for each map. Strategies and setups where each infected can work together to achieve synergy that are unique to each level could be added. Just my 2 cents. I think it would make the Wiki appear more professional. Krishna Defier (Gamer Tag) 14:29, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

Clown nose honking method confirmed
http://i37.tinypic.com/2cwlm4k.png From the L4D2 demo files.

kool with k. Well its kinda of easy :D Aratinga A. Ѭ, 09:56, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

thats just words. ITs kinda stupid and pointless.--The Scat Man 450  RO A  R! 17:40, October 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * actually it's worth for an achievments and the best way to honk it's nose is...


 * just hit the goddamn red button on it's faceCrazy al594 13:38, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Special Infected Mutations
I think that we should get rid of the bits in the various articles concerning the L4D2 specials that they may be less or more evolved versions of existing specials. Can't it just be possible that they are just their own specials? Just because there are some similarities, the differences are vast! TheCreaturenator 16  04:54, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

No, because it is possible that some of them are. A disease mutates to have a better chance to spread and survive. The only match I really think is possible though is the charger being related to the tank. But even that is a bit contriversal. Some people say that a charger is just a tank that didn't change all the way. I think it is a mutated form of the infection.---Vaxnil

Speech
Has anyone ever heard one of the infected talking, because i can swear i heard some of the zombies saying things like "let us in" and "f*** you" also i've heard some deep, evil laughs from them to. -unsigned.

The only thing I ever seem to hear them say is "BUENOS DIAS!!!!" as they rush me. Then again, my wife and I both occasionally hear what we laugh sounds like "moo" and "Squeel!" cow and pig noises.Krishna Defier (Gamer Tag) 14:31, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

I've heard all those and some noises that made them sound like apes (Ooh Ooha) etc. Jackass2009 04:27, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

Original special's new looks
We should replace the original look of the l4d1 special infects with their new looks on this page.

Charger, Spitter, and Jockey artwork
You know how in the Left 4 Dead manual there was artwork for all the Special Infected? Well, is there any artwork of the Charger, Spitter, and/or Jockey? If there is, then could they scan it and cut out the background? I just want the pictures to look more clear and the Spitter's acid in the model looks bad. , 03:14, November 21, 2009 (UTC)Pikmin1254

Horde section
Does the Horde really need it's own section? We could just cut it and add it on to the end the Common Infected part as one or two sentences. Swollenfish 16:35, November 22, 2009 (UTC)

Ripping Artwork
Can someone rip the artwork for the Charger, Spitter, and Jockey from these pages?

http://www.l4d.com/infected/charger/ http://www.l4d.com/infected/spitter/ http://www.l4d.com/infected/jockey/

SI Damage
Has anyone thought of compiling info on the damage SI deal? Then we can collate it into tables for each of the difficulty levels on their respective pages. I'd be happy to gather and provide the info, but I wouldn't know how to format it into a table. Anoyne interested?Radishes 03:29, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

Fix the page!
So as everyone already knows some bored little kid wandered onto the page and deleted everything, I am hoping someone can get this page fixed soon as I was gonna look something very important up. 74.170.163.209 20:13, December 18, 2009 (UTC)

He did it again! Someone really needs to ban his fucking IP adress. 74.170.163.209 20:16, December 18, 2009 (UTC)

Accident
I edited page The Infected, but didn't notice that I wasn't logged in, but I hope that it isn't so bad thing...--ŊυĐε 16:06, December 21, 2009 (UTC)

Quote area during edits
The quote area when youre editing something seems to be kinda confusing, if it wasnt for that I woulda put this in there: "Even being in a war doesn't prepare you for this - they never stop, they come at ya and come at ya and they never goddamn stop." - Bill (end) but it was a bit confusing. Not to mention how well it describes them.--Prof. 18:21, December 26, 2009 (UTC)

The Leaker
So, this is a cut infected akin to the Screamer. I'll get links if possible, but the source has no pictures.  Strong Intelligent 

Do not bother much. I got one. http://www.oxm.co.uk/article.php?id=16495 WardenerNL

Instincts Vs. Sentience
"It appears that most of the Special Infected have some form of intelligence. Smokers and Spitters will often run when sighted, hinting at a sense of self-preservation or at least the knowledge that their attacks must recharge. Also, Boomers and Hunters will often hide before attacking, but the Charger will just run straight into the Survivors without much intelligence or thought into attacking. A very important aspect of this, is that most Special Infected ignore pipe bombs, car alarms, and other noticeable events; as opposed to Common Infected"

Keep in mind that wild animals possess instincts such as self-preservation, ambush, the means to hunt, etc. As such, this isn't really evidence that the special infected display any more intelligence than mountain lions for example. You could say that they are not feral like the common infected who attack without purpose or finesse for that is certainly of note. On the other hand, if you throw a bile bomb in survival, the special infected actually do pursue and attack the victim, be it a tank or what have you (it is highly amusing to watch a hunter try to pounce on a biled tank). Incrognito 05:49, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

You should also keep in mind that the instincts of animals vary from species to species. For example, certain insects, such as ants and bees, use a sort of a "hive mind" method, most likely through the use of pheremones. As none of the individual members of the infected seem to have much of an instinct for self preservation, it is entirly possible that they are using this method. After all, what is a thousand hosts to the infection? There are several billion people on the planet. Taking out the few people who could potentialy destroy the infection if they work together seems worth it. ---Vaxnil

The charger will melee the survivor with the least health, and go for the next one with the least health and so on.

Alive Or Dead?
I posted this under the "Common Infected" section, but that may not have been the right place for it. I'll repost it here and see how people feel about it. As always, I look forward to seeing other points of view. :)

A lot of information on the infected on this page suggests people feel they are living people. I think this is a pretty big area that's left wide open for a lot of opinion, and my own opinion is that they are well and truly dead... And I think this can be proved to the point where a logical, clear thinking person would agree, and I invite people to debate the topic.

A) Left 4 Dead 2 wounding: Even on easy, the odd stray shot will open up an infected torso, spray organs in a trail behind them, or pop open a stomach wound that would destroy a good portion of the persons heart and lungs along with all their lower organs... Without stopping the actual attacker. These are not the actions of a sick person who's immune to pain... These kinds of wounds are instant death to anyone, barring those who are already dead. Avoiding talk of game mechanics means I'll skip over pointing out that, if left to their own devices, infected wounded in this manner or any other will also not bleed out and die.

B) The complexion of the average infected is not that of a "Sick" person. It's the grey of a corpse that has no more blood pumping to the surface.

C) Infected, unlike the living, catch alight instantly on contact with fire. While, as a general rule, cocktails contain foam or something similar to make them stick when they burn, those who run through the flames should do so mostly unphased... But instead they catch like paper, suggesting a real lack of moisture, and maybe even the gases of a decomposing corpse.

D) 2 weeks after first infection, no infected has drunk or had anything to eat (maybe baring human flesh, but that's a whole other page full of questions!) and yet continue to fight with the strength of a normal man, take bullets unflinchingly and fall 5 floors before climbing up a drain pipe like they were working on the set of Mirrors Edge. In Left 4 Dead 2, it's three weeks after first infection, but they are still faster then a busted car thief and rougher then a soccer fan. Unless we assume they eat and drink other humans, a suggestion I'm open too, but have seen no evidence of, then those infected in week 1 would likely die from want of fluids by week 2, and those in week 2 would be dead by week 3, meaning the infected population should be shrinking rapidly. Even if the infection was staggered out over some time, the entire surrounding area in Left 4 Dead 1 is devoid of all but a handful of living people, meaning by the time Left 4 Dead 2 is over it would almost be safe to start moving people back in... Unless those infected people were already dead and, thus, didn't need fluids.

E) They fall apart as thou they had no muscle or skin strength, much like a corpse, but can still punch a grown, muscled man to the ground.

F) They don't wear out of become too weak to fight. With the exception of a surprise attack, they take a hefty number of blows to the face with the butt of a gun to put down, they can fall a distance that would shatter human bone and rip muscle and cords to shreds, yet still run unhindered and they can lose a limb, organs or body mass and blood without slowing down... In other words, their fortitude and strength could only be considered unnatural.

G) Mutations: The human body and the laws of physics both demand that, to create body mass, you need something to make it from. No matter how many push-ups you do each day, you wont build muscle without food to convert into muscle (thou, obviously it's a little more complex then that). To that end, if the infected just stagger around, not eating, drinking, mating or watching MTV, where does the mass come from that makes a Boomer big? Or a Tank a one man killing machine? Or gives a smoker a 40 foot long tongue? The only energy the infected have would either come from eating people (seeing as they aren't cooking up a steak any time soon)... Yet there is a lack of chewed corpses, bitting or any visual display of corpse munching... Or from their own digested internal organs, which would kill them... Thus making them dead...

H 1) The state of the special infected begs the question: "How could you mistake this for a living person??"... A Boomer produces enough Bile to fill a human stomach, lungs and liver, and yet continues to waddle around just fine, and after expelling it, creates the same amount again in around 1 min... 1 Min!!! The break down of tissue needed to create bile enough to puke up that amount in 1 min would almost be enough to cause visible burning! Not to mention that the sheer amount of bile would likely drown and poison him... Not to mention that it appears to be pooling under his skin and in his other organs (rolling puss pockets, intestines poking out his little belly button), which would cause toxic shock and, frankly, just crush many of his organs under it's weight.... And let's not forget that he is so filled with this noxious goo that he is PRESSURIZED!... The man explodes on contact with Zoey's pony tail, so high pressure is he. The kind of pressure that could break open a wooden door is more then enough to crush his heart.

H 2) Smoker: This creature is full of smoke... And this doesn't mean he gives of a little amount when killed... He trails a constant stream of smoke and when killed is roughly as effective as a smoke grenade. That much smoke is enough to kill anything it's in, be it held in stomach, liver, or the obvious lung. This raises the question: "Where does the smoke come from?". Typically, the answer is fire, however let's assume that the smoker isn't alight internally. The smokers tongue must be coming from somewhere as well, but like the other infected, he never calls out for Pizza. Could this smoke, infact, be gases from the digesting of his own internal organs coupled with the dry, flaked fragments of those rotting husks of a heart, lungs and liver? Gas and a thick amount of dust could be mistaken for smoke... Much the same as a stage magician might use chalk dust and a short burst of air rather then lighting a fire in his own hat.

H 3) Jockey: Unless the Height Challenged population of the Deep South is amazingly high, then the only way for a Jockey to exist is if the infection literally removed muscle mass and bones from him... To be blunt, if this was a normal sized man before, he pooped out his torso, femur and much of his spine to get that size and shape. Obviously, this kind of internal damage causes... That's right, Death!

H 4) Spitter: She's full of acid... And not a "Dissolves living flesh only" acid, it's taken her cheeks from her, has dissolved much of her jaw and lips and eats through boots and shoes and clothes. This isn't a small amount of acid, either. This is enough to cover the same amount of earth as about 12 ltrs of water, and if she's shot directly afterwards, she'll still spit out roughly 4 odd ltrs more. Suffice to say, things that are filled with 16 ltrs of acid strong enough to eat through shoes in a few short seconds are dead. Not "Just very sick"... Dead.

H 6) Witches and Tanks: Aside from the common infected, who can suffer wounds that would kill a normal or sick person, the Tank and the Witch can swallow up enough ammunition to replace all their White Blood Cells with 9mm slugs and remain unslowed. As Mythbusters will attest, no amount of fat or muscle (both of which a Witch lacks utterly) can stop a bullet, and half a clip from an Assault Rifle still still put down a Rhino wearing a leather jacket, so the thickness of their skin isn't much assistance... Which begs the question, how does 2 clips from an AK47 not utterly ruin these two? Within the first 5 seconds of combat with one of these Special Infected, there isn't a vital part of their internal structure that wouldn't be shattered, punctured, or just utterly decimated. No matter how sick a person was to begin with, this kind of damage without flopping to the floor dead can only be achieved by something that no longer needs it's heart, lungs, stomach or liver... A dead thing.

There are other reasons, but they focus mostly on things that are done as game mechanics (Hunters pouncing from the top of Mercy Hospital, only to spring away again. Boomers making the same jumps as Smokers, shooting an infected in the face and then that infected never bleeding out, losing muscle control or passing out.... Things like this) and I'd like to avoid them as I don't think that doing something that makes a game fun and makes a game work should be removed for the purposes of "Zombie Cannon"... Otherwise I'd have to shoot Louis in the face every time I save him from a closet or bathroom... Why? Because things that I see die, and then are moving around again, ARE ZOMBIES! *Ka-blam!*... If you have reason to think the Infected are alive and just sick, and some points you can make to show this, I encourage you to post them here. If not, I suggest the pages be modified to point out that the infected should not be expected to fall over dead of starvation or any other reference to them acting like 28 Days Latter "Sick people". Suggestions? Feed back? Too long, did not read? Squidlord 21:48, April 5, 2010 (UTC) Squidlord


 * You make alot of good points however I believe they are still alive.

(Note I am not unfamiliar with Romeroesque zombies which you are implying they are)

A. The Infected, while they take a beating for sure, are still within the realms of possibility, shooting someone in the heart is not what kills somebody, the traumatic shock, loss of blood pressure, and the filling of the lungs usually do. There are reports of people staying alive as much as 20 seconds before dying of bloodloss after getting shot in the heart (hence why police snipers need a clear shot at the head). The Infected, as their name suggests, are infected with a virus. A semi-organism that lives independent of the host, only using it to reproduce and spread. And as a virus it does not need alot of the things we carry inside us, meaning you leave a large portion of the body basically worthless, mostly in the torso, which being the largest target is where most people aim.

B. Symptoms of diseases vary greatly. The pale skin could be a symptom of the virus

C. If they were dead, fire would not effect them at all. If anything that is proof they are alive, as they take a breath they inhale superheated gases charring their lungs, trachea, as well as the nose and mouth, which, being so close to the brain the intense heat would fry it killing them instantly. Also the skin is designed specifically for the purpose of preventing water loss, bodies do not simply dry up because you aren't drinking a bottle of water every 48 hours. Only bodies in deserts and maybe artic regions lose water before they start to decompose.(Also the bodies never appear to shrink, and taking a look at any charred remains would show you how much fire shrinks things made out of water)

D. This one I found many things to be incorrect. -D1. Many times can you clearly see the Infected throwing up, this means they are eating something, what that is I don't know (My theory is they are eating garbage and sewage, since they no longer need an immune system the germs would not be a problem)

-D2. Bullets penetrate, a common misconception is bullets impart large amounts of force into the target (Since you referenced Mythbusters I am assuming you have seen that episode) The bullets that are used in L4D are (mostly) military grade munitions, therfore they are built to enter and exit a substance (be it wood or flesh) cleanly. (Also they do flinch when they take a bullet unsuspectingly)

-D3. Living or dead falling 5 floors would shatter bone. Either way it makes no sense

-D4. L4D2 takes place in a area only recently infected, the infected could be 1 week or 4 hours old.

-D5. You seem to forget how available fresh water is. Even more available when you consider they no longer need to worry about other diseases.

-D6. The average human can go 1 month without any food (malnutrition sets in however at about 2 weeks)

E. Bodies can rip pretty easily.

F. Endorphines, nuff said.

G. I believe the law you are reffering to is actually "Mass cannot be lost or gained." and that is physical mass, not body mass AKA: weight. Boomers, appear to simply gain liquid. Tanks, are not seen roaming the streets but hiding waiting to attack. And Smokers could have some wierd mold growing inside them (I'll discuss these when I get to them). Also the body, when not given food, does actually eat itself, it starts off with fat, then muscle and eventually eats itself the whole process takes months to complete, alot of time to look for a quick meal or two.

H. Special Infected

-H1. The Boomer when it pukes you see no sign of the body losing weight, meaning the boomer must contain a massive amount of liquid inside its body. and the stuff he expelled must amount to a small portion of its total weight. Living creatures are not rocks, we are sponges, we absorb liquids and use them for many purposes, if so the organs and tissue of the Boomer must be supersaturated with liquids, presumably water, it is not simply pooling inside it but is being contained in each and every cell of the Boomer meaning the areas that can hold more water without bursting or harming the organs are more likely to be used for storage (ie: the skin) giving the Boomer his chubby little arms and legs (Also you seem to forget that a women can carry ten pounds of flesh inside her womb for 9 months without bursting).

-H2. The Smoker its not smoke, its spores. sort of like pollen, why does he produce pollen? Beats me...but smoke does not float around in little clumps. and it is possible the smoker is simply extending his insestines, and when you consider how a simple punch can break it, it could be compressed feces, after all the smoker can only shoot it and pull it back he cannot control it midflight.

-H3. The Jockey, while the benefits of riding your meal instead of twisting its neck are unknown to me, it is obvious the Jockey does still have a torso, femurs, and his spine is simply curved. Also it could be atrophy.

Im to tired to finish this right now I will do it later. --DMaster305 00:46, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. :) Excellent points in many cases. May I call a few things into question?

A) People who die 20 seconds latter are, however, still dead 20 seconds latter, an issue the Infected don't seem to suffer from. Additionaly, a virus which creates a host that no longer requires a heart or lungs must have a host that can only be described as "Dead"... Movement and infection or not... Because having a working internal system is one of the primary needs for something to be classified as "Alive".

B) Agreed, for sure. That being said, skin that pale (unless it was a bleeching as a result of the infection) indicates a loss of living tissue in most cases. However, your point is very valid, and I concure, this does not 100% indicate that the person is dead (Otherwise, what happened to Michael Jackson? ;) )

C) I disagree. Infected caught in flames scream and wail, something a person who's lungs are engulfed in flames cannot do. A person burning to death (other then the sound of licking flames, cracking skin and the sweet aroma of your meal almost done) makes no sound, as they can't pass air through their vocal cords... Also, a warm, moist, blood filled living body does not combust... Pass some meat through a flame and see, it does not burst into flames. The older the meat, however, the less moisture from blood and fluids, the more likley it is to catch on contact with the kind of heat a home made napalm device would make.

D1) I disagree again. The colour of the vomit suggests it might easily be stomach acid. People who don't eat can still bring up some very nasty fluids despite that.

D2) I wasn't meaning to suggest the bullets should knock them back through pure force, thou I note with a cynical eye to the physics students everywhere that sometimes it does... I meant only that a person who is sick, but alive, doesn't tend to take a bullet while running full force forwards and continue on that track, military rounds being all the more the point! Bones should shatter, organs puncture, blood rupture and the body shut down.

D3) Agreed, however a "Zombie" could likley be excused for not dragging itself around on it's hands after such a fall... Afterall, a virus that forces the muscles to contiue to function would only really cease function to an area after all contacts to the host and that limb had been removed.

D4) I see nothing to indicate that is true and everything to indicate that is not... IE: The army has already been overwhelemed, the streets and buildings almost utterly emptied and every shop, car and defendable position overun. Everything points to the city having been staving off the Horde for the recommended 2 weeks the intro suggests.

D5) All indication is the infected do not drink anything, let alone fresh water.

D6) The average human can go 1 week without food or water, 1 month without food but with water.

E) I disagree here as well. Bodies can rip, but it's far from easy, and muscle, sinew and bone almost never give utterly in a single swing. Severing an arm or leg isn't as easy as the movies would have us think... A complete human body might break bones, rip, pull muscle and bleed, but even a crocodile can't rip an arm off without a few good "Death rolls".

F) No amount of stimulants stop a person from crumbling to the ground under the described conditions: "shatter human bone and rip muscle and cords to shreds, yet still run unhindered and they can lose a limb, organs or body mass and blood without slowing down... ". People on PCP still stop running when their legs become inoperable or their spinal cord is a shattered mess.

G) Correct, and the laws of physics DO apply to the human body. The body doesn't suddenly erupt in muscle mass, it requires energry to convert to muscel (IE: Food). Without eating, the Tank gains massive amounts of muscel... Much more then even the most devoted body builders gain. And, yes, the human body DOES eat itself, which was my point... The result of this is death. Once again, all evidence, including "wall scrawlings" in game, points to the infected not eating anything.

H) This would be a good point, except basic biology tells us that, when a person is utterly saturated with enough fluids to constantly vomit up a good 10 ltrs of it, and that liquid isn't blood and water, that person dies from toxic shock because, as you said, their body is a sponge taking in large amounts of fluids that aren't designed to go there. To adress women who are with child... Children are not flooding her internal organs with bile. In addition, you didn't adress the fact that these fulids are so built up that have litteraly pressurised the Boomer, so that when a small bullet hole or two hits the right spot, it explodes with enough force to break a solid wooden door...

H2) That's a very good point about the spores... Sadly, litteraly being packed full of spores also results in death, making the Smoker a dead person. Intestines do not have muscle control like a tongue, so I fail to see how one could wrap around a person, but even if we assume the mutation caused the muscles around the intestine to become agile in that fashion, that still means the Smoker coughs up 80 feet of intestinal tract every 40 seconds... Which also results in Death.

H3) Atrophy doesn't cause a person to shrink from 5'5 (ish) to 3 foot in 3 weeks. Damage like that done to a human body in that short a period of time kills it.

This has been very good, and your points are very well made... Please don't lose sight of the fact that the overall objective is if or not the Infected are already dead and just forced into constant movement by (virus? parasite? The Lich King??). Some of your points seem to just contradict mine while still tending to point towards the Infected in question being dead from the results... Unless you were just in agreement and offering a different solution, in which case, excellent. :) Once again, thank you for helping out with some oposing opinons. Maybe people would like to suggest which outcome they find the most likley? Squidlord 09:08, April 8, 2010 (UTC) Squidlord

I would love to finish this but my computer refuses to let me see what I am typing for 5 seconds so until I can get back on my home computer I cannot rebuttal your points--DMaster305 22:26, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * I believe all the infected are alive, while the persons they used to be are dead, the infection completely taken over

Another word for zombie is undead. This means while zombies are dead, another part of them are alive (hence the un-). The Developer's Commentary for L4D2 summs it up pretty well by saying "''We wanted the infected to look like they have lost all sense of humanity, behaving like feral animals." ''The way I see it is that while the infected are alive, the parts of their brains that control common sense, nerves (because they can be armless and still run at you, and fall off of lage buildings unharmed), and adrenaline are all destroyed or modified so that they can perform like they do now. And in terms of appearance, the infection makes their skin and eyes that shade of white. Special Infected wise, the Boomer is large because of the extreme bile build-up, and can support his weight because the infection gave him extra stong legs (seeing how his legs never disappear when he dies). The Smoker is filled with spores and is able to stomach it because he is largely made of it, and the strain of infection he caught allows him to shoot his intestines out of his mouth, using the large tumer-like growths as a cannon. When you mentioned the Jockey, if you take a look at his clothes, you will notice that they are fairly small, meaning YES! The dwarf population down south is a little big! :D In terms of the Spitter, she is obviously not immune to her own acid, but I believe her stomach is much stronger than the average human if she is able to keep restoring it every few seconds. Now, with the Tank not being pireced with every bullet, I believe that his muscles are so strong and rigid that bullets only go in about four to five inches into his skin, making him a very tough competitor to defeat. The Witch is alot more confusing, seeing how she has little to no body fat left, but is still able to withstand quite a bit of fire, AND kill a Survivor in one hit. My only guess is that she converts all her anger into muscular and physical strength. That's just what I think though, and if you don't agree with anything I said, just say so. :P --?!?!?~PileOPapers 03:00, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

I feel the term "Undead" more realisticaly refferences Dead people and things that refuse to stop walking around and pretending to live... It's not that the "Un" indicates that some part of them is alive, the Un, English wise, just means that whatever it is joined to "Was once, but now is no longer"... Think of "Unwrapped" (Was wrapped, now isn't) "Unhook" (Was hooked, now isn't) and such... Or that the thing in question, in some cases, is not the conjoined word: Unhappy (not happy) Unimaginative (not imaginative). So either Undead is "Was dead, but now isn't" or "Isn't Dead"... You could debate that "Isn't Dead" makes them "Alive", but I think seeing as "Undead" also covers Skeletons, Ghosts, Lichs and Ghouls, we could all agree that it's taken as a given to mean things that are dead but still walk the earth. It would be most unusual for Valve to have coined the phrase in an utterly different fashion from the norm without mentioning it at some stage.

As for your examples, they once again don't seem to challenge the assertion that the result of your examples is death (Being double size due to being full of bile so highly pressurised it would crush his organs, being filled with Smoke/Spores.), and in some cases defy the laws of life and physics (Bullets not passing through thickened human skin and muscle.). I once again remind people that an explosion so powerful that it can -Smash A Solid Wooden Door To Tiny Splinters- being caused by the built up pressure inside a human body would kill that person... Think of it like this:

If you had a solid wooden door, and you put weights on it, how much weight would it take to crush the door and make it break? Now, how much weight would it take to crush a human heart?... That's how pressure works. When a Boomer explodes because of built up bile in his body, it's because the bile is so thickly built inside him that it is trying to escape: This is known as Pressure, and it acts the same as weight on things trapped inside the Boomer as well. In other words: If the Boomer has enough weight to break a door inside him, he easily has enough to crush all his bones and orgasn.

And the Smoker: If you are having trouble understanding why I'm not convinced by the "It's just full of spores" answer, think about this. Get a chalk duster and use it for a few weeks. Then smash it together untill the chalk dust is so thick you can't see outside of it when you are inside of it, and make it at least three times as wide as a normal human... Roughly the same thickness and width as a Smoker when it dies. Now, add some more dust, to represent the Smoke/Spores/Dust that constantly drift out of a smoker.... Now... Run into the cloud and inhale it all.

You might notice an odd effect. What you're experincing is what is known as "Dying" because your body can't function with lungs filled with thick dust/spores/smoke... But don't stop there! Now, cut open your stomach, reach in deep, and pull out 40 foot of your intestines... Twice. Now you have the authentic Smoker experince you are suggesting. I will miss talking to you. :(

However, I can see this part of the page ending up 2 miles long with back and forth, me pointing out things, other people pointing out things. I'll stop posting here and hope that people can "vote", so to speak, on what they feel is the right outcome. Feel free to point out flaws or agreement as you wish, I think (from my end, at least) I've made all the points I think would sway anyone. If, at the end of the day, the general feeling is they are dead, maybe the page should be edited to remove suggestion of them being alive. If not, I'm sorry to have taken your time. :) Squidlord 11:08, April 9, 2010 (UTC) Squidlord

I am not intelligent enough to add much to this, but I am in agreement with Squidlord. I will throw out though, I was raised on the Romero films, and as good as the 28 days/weeks later movies were, I gotta believe these are reanimated corpses driven by one instinct... BLOOD, or well, brains, umm... a rage to kill anything that moves? see its hard to really clearly state dead or alive. I believe dead, again, Romero has made that story so much more scary to me than the rage virus so I want to believe it, though I wouldn't want to ever deal with either. But there are some things that we arent quite able to answer. Why are the common infected attacking? Are they eating you? I've read the arguments, and they are a good read on this wiki, but "they dont bite you" could just be a game mechanic that is easier to animate hitting than biting. And now I am starting to go off of opinionated speculation. If they bite- they are dead, but thats based on romero's canon, and if they hit and claw- 28 days later. The actual scientific based reasons being posted still tell me that the once upon a time humans are now dead as no human, not even Brock Smason could handle such torture, having the body mutated and shot up no one could stay alive. I guess I am ultimately getting at that I believe the zombies are just puppets to the virus, and the host is dead. Hellz Lips 03:47, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

Don't you EVER doubt Brock Sampson again!! Squidlord 10:40, April 16, 2010 (UTC) Squidlord

Actually Squid Lord, I found something that you should want to look at. I found that on the development of the Charger sheet, Valve stated that the infected are living beings. So... yeah. Here's the link if you want: 128.135.113.223 14:05, April 29, 2010 (UTC)

Even if valve hadnt said they were alive, I would side with alive. Im skipping most of the stuff after the A, B, C, etc... thing, so forgive me if i miss something.

A: A and F kind of tie into each other in my opinion. Here is the thing. Looking at it from terms of a disease, the first thing you need is a way to spread the infection. I think that that would be the most common part of the infection: the common infected. Now, if you have all of these guys to spread the disease, they still don’t do very well if they can be cut down by a few bullets. So, supposedly, the infection affects the parts of the brain that deal with pain, allowing the common infected to ignore pain almost completely, so that they can reach the target. Also, which is better, a tool that works once, or a tool that works all the time. Conceivably, the infection could help the body’s natural defense system, allowing them greater tolerance to injury, and to heal faster than normal. Also, if you will notice, it really doesn’t take that many bullets to bring down one zombie. However, when you talk about them taking massive damage and living, I would assume you are talking about realism, where they can literally have arms blown off and still chase you. Firstly, the infection could close off all blood passages leading to the missing limb, preventing blood loss. Secondly, remember that realism is not the regular game, it is designed to be a bigger challenge than normal. And even then, headshots are now extremely effective, and the brain would be where the infection gives the zombie its high pain tolerance.

B: As Dmaster said, pale skin is a possible symptom, perhaps from the infection making it so that the blood is not transferred as much, decreasing the devastation of losing parts of the body.

C: A couple of things here. Firstly, pale skin = less blood flow = less moister. Second, remember that physics work differently in L4D. After all, in real life, shooting a propane tank doesn't make it blow up, and shooting a gas can won't cause a fire.

D1: They might not eat or drink the way we do. However, you have to remember that the infection is changing the physiology of the host. They could be taking in nutrients from another source than food.

D2: As I said earlier, no pain.

D3: Again, no pain, although I feel this falls more into the category of the developers not thinking about it.

D4: 3 weeks after the first infection. It arrived only a while before the game starts because the survivors are not quite sure what is going on. In addition, there are still a hell of a lot of guns over at the gun store. Finally, there are no people because they were evacuated. Didn't you watch the open cinematic?

D5: Back onto the subject of eating. Here is the thing. All of this indication comes from the observations of survivors. Survivors don’t stand around and watch the infected. They shoot them. As of yet, there is no major research into the behavior of the infected.

D6: Again, could be getting water from anywhere.

E: They are sick. I would imagine that they are fairly fragile. Also, the pathogen would be taking parts of the body and using to reproduce.

F: This aint PCP. This is something in your brain that will literally not let you feel ANY pain. It's kind of like how a boar keeps fighting even after it should be dead, because it hasn't realized that it should be dead.

G: The mutations. A central part of the infection. The materials for this extra mass could come from just about any source. As I said, they could in fact be eating.

H1: Here we go. Specifics on the mutations. Now, first, I will counter your argument. How could the host not be alive. There is no pathogen that can control a dead body. That is the stuff of magic and (extreme) science fiction, neither of which is present. I don't quiet think that boomers just have lots of boomer bile in one organ so much as i believe all of their tissue is saturated with it (although some of it would still be in an organ). Thus, he would still be obese, and the explosion could be something that is supposed to happen. Boomer bile could be a mode of infection. Also, if the infection causes the body to produce boomer bile, it would naturally provide the body with a way to not die from it.

H2: Onto the smoker. They are indeed spores, not smoke. Part of the smoker could have been remade to produce these. One possible reason, is that they might serve as a method of infection. Also, we don’t know that the smokers tongue is in fact a tongue at all. It could be a thick, long strand of spores that are stuck together.

H3: The Jockey has not shrunk. He is simply hunched over and his body form has been changed. If you look at him when he is riding someone, he has a normal torso size.

H4: The infection would have given the spitter some resistance to her own acid, at least in the stomach where it is stored.

H5a: I would like to point out that the witch does have a good amount of health, but not a bullet-soaking amount. It only seems like that because of how fast she can go in and kill her target.

H5b: The tank. The genuine bullet soaker. Here is the thing. First off, remember that the zombies are almost completely immune to pain. Now then, the tank is like this, but he is powered almost purely by testosterone, and adrenaline. You are doing damage to him, but, HE DOESNT CARE. All he wants is to smash you into pulp. h5c

will to live is crucial factor and also certain body structure plays a big roll, for example boars have a very small brain which is very hard to hit. so shots to the heat and lungs are taken (i.e. 2-3in from shoulder but there shoulder can stop up to a .44 magnum making there body tough. how ever certain animals such as water buffalo can receive massive amounts of damage before dying all by a combo of dense bone an muscle tissue.

All of this is just an explanation for how this works, because there is a genuine thing that automatically makes the infected alive. And that is the fact that no pathogen can cause a dead body to get up and move, let alone grow muscles. It is literally impossible. The infection needs living hosts so that it can live itself.---Vaxnil

the jockey is 5 ft tall my theory on this is he was wheel chair bound which would explain his skinny legs and massive upper body mass

I have calculated the hights of the infected ,the jockey 5', boomer 6'2,smoker 6'6, charger 6'8, tank7'2 hunter 6', wich 5'7. so why has this info been removed from the articles?can someone explain?

INDEED

about the boomer, the explosion happens it has an easy explanation, the bile pop out just like when you push a needle through a water baloon, but in higher pressure.but the tank it might be a real bullet soaker, if you see how thick it's muscle was just like a thick woods. smoker, the tongue seems to be like a hydraulycs system only filled with some sort of gas, that's why it has a long and thick tongue because it's folded and it's thick beacuse its filled by gas.Crazy al594 12:56, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

i have a theory about the infected eating and the smoker and boomer. no one knows the infected dont eat, we just know no one has SEEN them eat, or at least they havent told anyone. why would a infected stop to snack on a dead survivor when their's still other survivors shooting at him? the infected never bite because it isnt that dangerous and it takes some time and is easily stopped, think of it this way, if you want to kill someone are you going to bite them or hit them? amphibians can absorb moisture into their skin, the boomer also has very delicate and in some spots spongey flesh, he could absorb moisture frome the air and use it to make bile. it is highly unlikely that the smoker is actually using his tounge, i think that it is a growth of tissue, similar to the tanks muscle but consentrated. the smokers growths on his face could be were he stores his "tongue" this would explain why it gets bigger in l4d 2 because their are more "tongues".

I have mentioned it on the old one... or possibly this one, I don't remember, but the Church Guy from L4D1 is in the middle of turning while you are talking to him, therefore, either the symptoms show before death, or they are living. Also, being a virus, wouldn't it be required for the host to be alive? (Sorry, I'm not a biologist or anything) Ratmage99 08:37, December 26, 2010 (UTC)

Didn't valve Confirm the infected are alive? Berzerkgodzilla
 * As a Biology major, I can tell you that your argument does hold water. The host organism need not necessarily be alive for viruses to replicate, however replication can only occur in living cells. In other words, although a fresh corpse would be capable of culturing the virus, its lifespan would be only as long as there are living cells adjacent to each other for the virus to infect, so a living specimen would be more ideal. Xeno the Hedgehog 09:05, December 26, 2010 (UTC)

If the infected are alive, the laws of science demand that they have food. Could the infected be able to make their own food? Since these guys have enormous strength and energy, they must have a source of these. Maybe the virus gave their skin cells to do photosynthesis ? But a zombie that likes the daylight is kind of odd. Maybe they can do chemosynthesis ? But these require complex molecules like methane ( maybe from volcanic erruption) to be in the environment so they can be break down, and we don't see any signs of these in-game. Maybe they eat just like us ? But the limited food would have depleted very quickly, especially with farms not working and no new food produced. Maybe they can eat mud or grass ? I think the best explanation is that they do all of the above for some degrees.

Ok, you are all looking WAY too much into this. This is a VIDEO GAME. Valve made the infected alive because you CAN'T KILL something that is already dead, which would make the infected invincible. That would make this game impossible to play. Also, for the "Special Infected must be dead or they wouldn't look like that" again, this is a VIDEO GAME. If they were dead, would they be walking? NO. And, arguing for the other side, they are a simulation. THEY ARE NOT ALIVE IN THE FIRST PLACE! Thank you for letting me rant. ZombieKitten 01:08, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

@ZombieKitten: Yet that's what this wiki is all about. Everything from the video game is just about taken as seriously as real life... we're the only wiki that provides info for it on the web! So we have to have the right info to tell people. No one's gona believe you when you call it "just a video game."

And hey... you might as well get used to it while you're at it ;) AteAlive 03:17, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry. I am actually trying to convince myself that this is a video game. I have a small mental problem that makes it difficult to understand fact from fiction. A few years ago I thought that I was a mutant vampire thing so I guess I don't want to think its the end of the world when all I have done is left the volume on LFD2 on high. Also, its usually ME arguing things like this and I kinda don't like it when other people are doing it for some crazy reason. So, sorry everyone for that annoying post. My next post will most likely be something like this, though MUCH crazier. ZombieKitten 05:23, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Seperate page for special infected?
Shouldn't there be a sperate page for special infected?Verno 01:40, April 16, 2010 (UTC)

...The Boomer, The Smoker, The Hunter, The Tank, The Charger, The Jockey, and The Spitter do have their own pages. And, next time, sign after your posts  Pikmin  1254 .

And if for some reason you meant to say the Uncommon Common Infected then no. Several people have brought that idea up, but its been decided that its just easier for them to go onto the Common Infected page. Nightmirage 22:51, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

I meant as a whole they should have there own page (instead of sharing it with common infected), I'm well aware that each one has there own page.Verno 01:40, April 16, 2010 (UTC)

So you meant the Uncommon Common not the Special Infected? I don't know. Ask Jo or Five Dog about it. I think it's a decent idea, but it's not up to me. Nightmirage 18:00, April 16, 2010 (UTC)

No, I do mean special infected. Currently, there is no special infected page. the term just redirects to the The Infected page.--Verno 21:27, April 16, 2010 (UTC)

Stupid changes.
Some little asshole is going around and editing pages such as this one, making stupid sexual remarks and such. I looked through the changes list for this guy 77.108.133.155, might be him. If this is indeed true, someone please ban him.

Karma, ninja etc charger
hey I was on youtube and saw a blurry video called karma charger and a bunch of other stuff and I was wondering wat does the various names mean?76.94.173.73 02:03, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Karma and ninja chargers are just fads.128.135.113.94 20:32, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

New fad: Justice Witch.---Vaxnil

Karma Charger was a phrase coined when the L4D2 demo came out. When ever a survivor would leave the goup the Director had a nasty habit of spawning a Charger that would charge, and incap, and possibly kill the survivor. Get it? Karma Charger? Bad Karma? - MailMan341

New infected.
If you look at the Hard eight mutation picture you can see a weird type of infected. What is it?

that alien from hl?

It has the Size, Shape, and Form of a Jockey. Now before you say "But there's already a Jockey on there.", think twice. There's 2 Hunters on there isn't there? One in front of the Tank and the other in front of the Boomer. -- ''' Chris. Problem?  BOOM-DIAH!  ''' 14:29, October 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Of course, because it's hard EIGHT. :P Jo the Marten  [[Image:Mini Hunter.png|I dare you to click Mini Hunter|link=http://l4dwiki.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&user=venatorphile]]( Shriek )  ಠ_ಠ  17:56, October 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * chris, have you count the witch?Crazy al594 09:54, June 23, 2011 (UTC)

Lack of eating
Considering the mutations to the Boomer and Spitter make them produce something a Human shouldn't, is it possible that mutations could make infected bodies more self-sufficient; not requiring food/drink? Just a thought. Fadm tyler 15:52, November 20, 2010 (UTC)

Could the infected be able to make their own food? Since these guys have enormous strength and energy, they must have a source of these. Maybe the virus gave their skin cells to do photosynthesis ? But a zombie that likes the daylight is kind of odd. Maybe they can do chemosynthesis ? But these require complex molecules like methane ( maybe from volcanic erruption) to be in the environment so they can be break down, and we don't see any signs of these in-game. Maybe they eat just like us ? But the limited food would have depleted very quickly, especially with farms not working and no new food produced. Maybe they can eat mud or grass ? I think the best explanation is that they do all of the above for some degrees.

Needing Strategies for The Sacrifice and No Mercy.
Can someone please make strategies for The Charger, The Jockey, and The Spitter for The Sacrifice and No Mercy? I would do it myself, but I do not have the time.  Pikmin  1254 

Infected Family
Okay so here it is: There's the dad and the mum, the Tank and the Witch. They are a very happy couple and have a kid. The kid mostly takes after his dad but has a lot of his mum in him as well. Hes strong and muscley and when someone annoys him he's quick to charge them. You could say he's a bit of a Charger. Now we come to the mums side of the family and she has a brother. He's a bit of a Smoker. Sad to say he is a single parent as his wife passed away due to an oral sex incident... Anyway as i said he is a single parent to his twins. Now his twins are a bit different. One of them is a bit depressed hasn't got over the mothers death and seeks attention sometimes. You could say he's a Hunter of attention. The other is a very sporty and hyper individual who is very active and infact a Jockey. Now we go to the dads side of the family. The dad has a younger brother and younger sister. The sister is a bit of a loner as she has a speech problem and is a bit of a Spitter. But she doesn't mind, she has plenty of hobbies to occupy her time. Now the brother, he's a bit of a hopeless romantic and his heart is so big he's a Boomer. He was lucky enough to find out he has a female counterpart which is nice for him. They have yet to have any kids though. That's the infected family. Discuss :D

oral sex incident (Bwaahaha!), Oh yeah it's Creative (NOT Sarcastic) 02:37, January 27, 2011 (UTC)

Thats so cool. Joshdrick 09:24, April 14, 2011 (UTC)

Proof?
From the article, the section about the cut Infected, the Leaker: ''It is still possible to play as The Leaker with console commands by using "Map MAPNAME Versus", then typing in console "Boomer_Leaker_Chance" and a number between 0 and 1. You will know when you are a leaker if it says "You are a/the Leaker!", or if you explode on death and cause a small fire. ''

Is there any proof of this?  Pikmin  1254  14:52, February 6, 2011 (UTC)

Wow looks awesome!!! Any proof? Joshdrick 09:20, April 14, 2011 (UTC)

Female Hunter
Hi guys i was just wondering if female hunters would be perfect please reply to this.. also if you dont want to have a female hunter reply to this say why dont u want a female hunter. Thanks! Joshdrick 09:19, April 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * That will be cool and strange,Female do a parkour?Malik 14:39 August 10, 2011
 * Yup. Jo the Marten  [[Image:Mini Hunter.png|I dare you to click Mini Hunter|link=http://l4dwiki.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&user=venatorphile]]( Shriek )  ಠ_ಠ  08:57, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

Worker Uncommon Infected.
Okay, so the uncommon infected first featured in Hard Rain ( and then others), the construction worker zombies, with the ear muffs, hard hat and the safety vest. You know which ones im talking about. Is it just me, or are they immune to head shots? I've tried several times, thinking they are (I mean, it does make sense, they have hard hats on) and ive never gotten a head shot on one. Is it just bad luck, or am I right?

More Uncommon infected and Eastern egg uncommon infected
maybe need more uncommon infected,a uncommon infected like Osama,George bush,Obama,etc and some eastern egg uncommon infected like Chuck greene,Sniper from TF2,Apeture science worker,G-man,Some character from COD:Zombie mode

Secret Infected
A secret Infected found in the menu background:

DebiNise 16:30, March 19, 2012 (UTC)

450px|left

good idea for the cause of the infection

the spitter looks scruffy and maybe didnt have a lot of money so got experimented on for money and the she mutated?

Survivor sound files
Hey guys, was i the first one to discover this? i doubt it but, i was looking through the sound files for left 4 dead 2 and looked at the survivors sounds. the filename was "teengirl" was zoey, "producer" was rochell, "mechanic" was ellis, "manager" meant louis, "gambler" meant nick, the other file name was "coach" for coach, and "biker" meant francis. was i the first one to find this? you can find the sound files in left4dead2_dlc1>sound>player>survivor>voice. and those are the files. well what do you think? was i the first one to find this or some other person did way before me? 69.242.27.166 05:03, November 28, 2013 (UTC)deerrrppp69.242.27.166 05:03, November 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * And you found what exactly? Pangia, 10:25, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

encounters with l4d2 infected
Why didn't the l4d1 survivors encounter the l4d2 special infected?We know the virus spread all over the U.S and possibly the whole world. (remember story-wise)