User talk:Alexis.coutinho

edits flood
jeez dude, i just woke up and you went on a rampage. what is all of this, module? stuff from wikipedia? im afraid all of this may or may not disrupt and break the entire wiki, or remove something that other might not be happy. i wanted you to explain what are you intended to do

i also saw you moved a patchnote to a separated page, which is alright, but you put it under Last Stand Refresh and not the date. im moving the page Randompeeponinternet (talk|contribs) 08:50, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * and also, i tried to mark as patrol on one of the module page, it send back an error to me, i think you broke something or irs just too much Randompeeponinternet (talk|contribs) 08:52, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * man ok, you broke a lot of things now. tried to save an edit and it give me  error. if you dont mind, ill delete all of the module and revert nearly everything back Randompeeponinternet (talk|contribs) 09:34, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * sorry if you feel very frustrated because that i deleted and reverted almost all of your import. you are free to create template and things however you like. however, for modules and scripts, there need to be some discussion with other people, not just between you and me, as it is very advanced. not even i want to touch the CSS script of this wiki Randompeeponinternet (talk|contribs) 11:53, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * That wasn't an "edit flood". It only seems like so because those modules have some dependencies.
 * "what is all of this, module? stuff from wikipedia?" me just trying to use some standard functionalities from Wikipedia, like being able to properly cite sources and use basic article link templates.
 * "break the entire wiki" how? I thought that if Scribunto was installed, then it was available for use...
 * "remove something that other might not be happy" I didn't remove anything from other users and made sure to check that the edits only added/incremented features.
 * "i wanted you to explain what are you intended to do" as explained above: to be able to use "Cite web" and "Main", "Further", etc standard templates.
 * "but you put it under Last Stand Refresh and not the date. im moving the page" that is literally the official name of the update, just like The Last Stand Update, so it's more appropriate. The date and version number are more adequate inside infoboxes and navigation boxes when the reorganization is started.
 * "i tried to mark as patrol on one of the module page" what is that? Is it applicable to modules?
 * "tried to save an edit and it give me  error" what page was that in? I had no problems in my pages yesterday.
 * "if you dont mind, ill delete all of the module and revert nearly everything back" well, I do mind, though I understand that all problems need to be sorted out before committing a big change.
 * "you are free to create template and things however you like" templates are quite limited and such a pain to work with... I would rather avoid editing if I have to convert modules back to templates or have to search for old versions of templates or templates from other wikis that are at least half decent.
 * "for modules and scripts, there need to be some discussion with other people, not just between you and me, as it is very advanced" why? I don't know of anyone else to talk about this since this wiki has low activity.
 * "not even i want to touch the CSS script of this wiki" that's sad because I was planning to ask you about supporting the TemplateStyles extension.
 * What do you think about testing those modules via template sandboxes first, to figure out where the problem is and address it? Alexis.coutinho (talk) 22:45, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * personally, im just afraid that you might break something because you port so much module over here just for the "main", "further" and "cite web" template, in which the last one isnt really needed because of how small and little activity this wiki is. just manually write it out in the ref (retrieved date, archive link, etc.) instead of depending on the template is somewhat better


 * being a wiki that now have very little activity (most pro and formerly active editor and bureaucrat quit or went on a hiatus, most likely due to the change in fandom throughout the years) also mean that i would rather leave the current script and module (if any) alone to avoid breaking the wiki until extended testing and discussion are made. when i tried to edit a page yesterday after i woke up, the wiki went into a lockdown for maintainment, preventing me from saving changes (i checked other wiki and it does not give the banner), and when i tried to save an edit after the banner is gone, or trying to patrol one of your newly added stuff, it give me the error and refuse to process with the task until later on


 * it could, however, be on fandom end and not your fault and this wiki end. you can count on that i panicked and/or frustrated a bit. its just how i am when i saw a huge edit committed and, being the only active bureaucrat left (new one actually, i just got promoted so the guy who adopted this wiki can go on with life, even though i initially refused but left with no choice later on), its hard to just maintain the wiki alone, yet alone having to also do other tasks like translating for video games to vietnamese and monitoring the translation activities, life and more


 * you are still free to make template and, to some extension, module. but just make sure to only port what you really need, or avoid using module and do a workaround if you have the skill to do so. i will reply to some of your other replies if you dont like to read the above messages:


 * as said above, cite web template isnt needed here due to how small it is, and you can try to make a "workaround" Further template by depending on the "Main" template if you can. if you still want to depend on the module only, only port the module needed, although i cant put my finger on being happy for it if it happen to break this wiki again


 * my exact plan for separating the update page is to put each log into a page that is under the title of when it is published. maybe gonna also need to make it a date under the UTC timezone, i dont know. as for the unique title (Last Stand Refresh), you can make a redirect to the main log page, and then also say that the log is under this name in the intro
 * Does that mean you want to rename The Last Stand Community Update page to its date and version? I still really think that it's better for articles of named updates to show this name instead of the update's meta information like date and version. These 'big' update pages are more important than the Updates (Left 4 Dead 2) page itself. Ideally, most of the readers of these 'big' update pages would come from directly searching the update name in the search box or by following their links from other articles (or other websites). In both of these cases, it would only make sense to use the update name as a search index. Using the updates' meta information as search index only makes sense in the "Updates" list page (and future navboxes), but since it's less important, its preferences shouldn't be mainstream, i.e. the date/version pages would be the redirects. Alexis.coutinho (talk) 15:41, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * no, its not what i intended to do. in my opinion, update logs should be kept under it published date, regardless of if it is a major log or not. but for major update patch, a separated page will be created for it (in which as far as my knowledge go, only that one is the major update released so far), and then insert this into that page: This article is for content released in the update. For the update log itself, see (date) Update.. see the Scream Fortress XV page and the patch itself for the annual event from the Team Fortress Wiki for reference


 * although by the look at the September 24, 2020 patch, which only contain a single link to the major update page, i dont think there is much hope to recover what exactly is changed unless there is still a history of the logs exist on the internet


 * incase you also want to say about the update log size being that big, just look at this recent tf2 patch, which is probably around the same level as the Last Stand Refresh. as for now, keep as is, and if there is unique name for an update log, just make it a redirect link pointing to that log. i agree it sound boring, yes, but still Randompeeponinternet (talk|contribs) 19:18, 15 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I get it now. Then I think section transclusion could also be useful to inject the pure changelog into the more casual Last Stand Refresh page until the changes are summarized and given visual cues (like in the tf2 page). i.e. the Last Stand Refresh page could follow a different structure. I'll create a topic in its talk page when the time comes to trim it down and stop using the full changelog transclusion. Alexis.coutinho (talk) 20:22, 15 October 2023 (UTC)


 * patrol is only visible for admin and b-crats, and unpatrolled page (newly created things and uploaded files only) are marked with a red exclaimation mark. it doesnt do much about it, aside from letting other staff and bcrats know that one of them has checked the page


 * the page that give me that error is in this talk page and the Updates (Left 4 Dead 2) page. it happened when i woke up and commit an edit. it could be on fandom end though, i just got panicked and/or frustrated a bit, you can count on that alright
 * Quite strange. I managed to edit the Updates (Left 4 Dead 2) page fine after importing the modules (that move edit to Last Stand Refresh). Alexis.coutinho (talk) 15:41, 15 October 2023 (UTC)


 * there is another person that i can discuss with for script and module commits, that is the guy who adopted this wiki and who promoted me before went on with life. however, i do agree that its not enough, and that other guy is most likely not advanced in coding too. still, better safe than sorry


 * you want to ask me about TemplateStyle extension? what is it. you can talk about it to me and im going to think about it. by lucks, i will enable it for you if it is seem ok
 * https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TemplateStyles. It's used to make implementing formatting templates easier and cleaner by separating the styles stuff from the tag structure. Instead of having to add the formatting to the tag's  attribute, editors can use CSS and its selectors. For example https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Talk_quote_inline&action=edit. Alexis.coutinho (talk) 15:41, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * ill look into it, when i have the time to do it Randompeeponinternet (talk|contribs) 19:18, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * alright so, it seem like the extension isnt supported at all on fandom, not even in the "available on request" section on community fandom wiki, unless im missing something. either i need to request the fandom engineering for the installation of the mediawiki plugin, in which they, as said in that page, will most likely decline and can take months, or you can help me in properly installing the extension if it is actually possible for a wiki admin to do it Randompeeponinternet (talk|contribs) 20:56, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Damn... Alexis.coutinho (talk) 21:11, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Does that mean that you don't have access to the database server? Alexis.coutinho (talk) 23:35, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * what do you even mean by that? if you really mean it for installing extension, im only a bureaucrat for this wiki, not a staff for the entire fandom website, i dont have control over the fandom website, yet alone being able to access the database server. only the fandom engineer can do it, and they need to convert stuff to make it fit into fandom, as explained in that page. the installation guide on mediawiki for installing TemplateStyles extension required that i put it into a folder that contain the wiki im hosting and run a few commands, neither of which i can do for this fandom wiki. but if by some reason i can actually do it without contacting fandom engineer or so, tell me. if the extension has already available on fandom, either enabled by default or enable on request, i will contact fandom if its the latter to enable it for you, but it sadly isnt the case here, for now Randompeeponinternet (talk|contribs) 08:07, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the clarification. I don't know of a workaround, so I guess this is off the table for now. Though I would still be very pleased and satisfied if we manage to get the modules working. Coming from the VDC wiki, which doesn't support modules, editing here is a blessing ;) Alexis.coutinho (talk) 14:41, 16 October 2023 (UTC)


 * sandbox is always the right place to test newly added thing, especially scripts and modules, as it wont affect the mainspace and pages if there is something wrong. however, im not really sure how you can test scripts and modules in a sandbox space without affecting other part of the wiki
 * But modules shouldn't do anything until they are called by a template or other module. What do you think about reimporting the smaller Hatnote modules to a /sandbox page and then testing them via "Main" and "Further" template sandboxes? We can also test if simply creating a single module page raises problems. Alexis.coutinho (talk) 15:41, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * alright, go ahead, just port module that are required for a template to function. also, when you take any thing from Wikipedia, be sure to give a note. in the module case, create a comment string and tell that it is taken from Wikipedia. edit history reason wont be enough. same case go for ported-from-Wikipedia template, just use in that template


 * also, make sure to have the message from the template in Italic, depending on the template intended.mostly "Main" and "Further" template is what im referring to in this case. because when you transform it into module-depended templates, i saw that it lost it italic format (eg. "Main article: Left 4 Dead Wiki" became "Main article: Left 4 Dead Wiki) Randompeeponinternet (talk|contribs) 19:18, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I plan to also port over the documentation of the templates and modules from wikipedia. When that happens, I'll use the Wikipedia port template to show that the original source was that. I'm pretty sure those "Main" and "Further" texts weren't in italic because the formatting was done via templatestyles, which I commented out in the modules. Therefore, unless templatestyles is also used, those modules can't be directly used freely. I'll start testing them though. Alexis.coutinho (talk) 20:22, 15 October 2023 (UTC)


 * let me know further if you have any question, but hold onto those module. you dont need to port all (important) module from wikipedia. hell, not even the Minecraft fandom wiki here use all of the module that you ported. as for the "Cite web" template, if you still want to make a proper citation, you can maybe try to look at the "Template:Citation" on minecraft wiki, both fandom and "moved to" wiki. dont know if that is depended on module


 * this message was written for over 30-40 min shortly after i woke up, and i havent eat breakfast/lunch


 * --Randompeeponinternet (talk|contribs) 10:35, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

ref groups
@Randompeeponinternet: By the way, regarding my attempt to add the Efn template, ref groups are actually supported in this wiki, they are just not configured. One would need to create a  file like this for the labels to display properly. This would be very useful to be able to separate actual references from notes in the update pages for example. Alexis.coutinho (talk) 21:47, 15 October 2023 (UTC)


 * pinging dont actually work here unlike Wikipedia, so it will not send a notification to me. you are better off at hoping into my talk page and create a new topic there, as any edit anybody made on my talk page will send a notification to me
 * I know, but I still like the formatting ;) Alexis.coutinho (talk) 16:18, 16 October 2023 (UTC)


 * as for your message above, ill see about it when im not busy


 * random fun fact: its past midnight here as of writing Randompeeponinternet (talk|contribs) 22:35, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Though regardless of installing extensions being a hassle, it's ridiculous that Fandom doesn't provide these standard group labels. I'll try to see what I can do. Alexis.coutinho (talk) 14:53, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Actually, it's much simpler than I thought!!! MediaWiki:Cite_link_label_group-lower-alpha isn't a file, it's just a wiki page, for example. Alexis.coutinho (talk) 15:22, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't have permission to create it though. Alexis.coutinho (talk) 15:22, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * hate to give you more bad news, but i also cannot create it Randompeeponinternet (talk|contribs) 17:39, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * That doesn't make any sense! Alexis.coutinho (talk) 23:28, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Is it just that page that you can't create? Or is any MediaWiki page forbidden? Alexis.coutinho (talk) 23:38, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * every single mediawiki, including MediaWiki:Test as, you guess it, testing purpose. said that i dont have perm to create it, even though given that im a bureaucrat in this wiki here Randompeeponinternet (talk|contribs) 05:47, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Something isn't right. Could you contact the previous admin to ask about this? Because MediaWiki pages were created and edited in the past by members of this wiki it seems. Maybe there's a permission he forgot to give to you or maybe the way those pages work changed since then. Alexis.coutinho (talk) 18:40, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * he gave me full bureaucrat perm, and i doubt that he can create it. just check Special:ListUsers and only tick on the "administrator" or "bureaucrat" box. compare my perm (Randompeeponinternet) to the admin who promoted me (Yong Feng). we both have the exact same groups. and adopting a wiki mean the wiki representative giving you bureaucrat or administrator perm or both, thats it, no more, no less. fandom couldve changed it so you cannot create a mediawiki now, but im not sure


 * ps: this talk page is really getting a lot messy lol Randompeeponinternet (talk|contribs) 19:18, 17 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I managed to get in contact with a FANDOM staff member and he can help us with this. Most MediaWiki pages are blocked by security reasons, but we can still make requests. We have to decide what pages to include. Right now, we only need the lower-alpha labels, however, since we can't quickly manage these pages on demand, I wonder if it would be smarter to take the opportunity to get them all in one go. What do you think? Alexis.coutinho (talk) 18:24, 19 October 2023 (UTC)


 * if you want multiple MediaWiki pages then yes, request all of them in one go is a better and time-efficient idea. but what kind of MediaWiki page do we (you) need aside from MediaWiki:Cite_link_label_group-lower-alpha. list all of it here. also, does he need you to ask a permission from an sysop/bcrats for the MediaWiki creation Randompeeponinternet (talk|contribs) 19:30, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, we don't currently need the others besides . The other label groups are orders of magnitude less used than lower-alpha in Wikipedia, though, given its size, there are still hundreds of transclusions each. I also thought of porting them all because then the implementation of Efn could simply be copy-pasted. But trimming out the unused label groups in this wiki's template version wouldn't be a problem. Maybe it's just better to keep it clean and only import used labels... Regarding the permission, he didn't say anything yet. Maybe he'll ask you if it's ok. Or maybe he just adds it since there's nothing special/peculiar about that mediawiki page. Alexis.coutinho (talk) 00:09, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

✅
 * by the way, when you are to port from other or make your own template, try to make it fit into the theme of l4d or at least this wiki if you can and if possible, unless there is nothing else to convert like plain text such as Main. if its in a box like Warn, then make some part of it l4d-related theme Randompeeponinternet (talk|contribs) 19:19, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah. I'll try to make the notice boxes look like the ones already here. Alexis.coutinho (talk) 21:18, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Modules testing
@Randompeeponinternet: To start testing modules, the first thing we need to confirm is if simply having a Module page in the wiki is a problem. Therefore, I would like you to undelete the Module:Yesno page, which is the simplest module and is used by pretty much everything else. Then, check if that problem you had reappears. ;) Alexis.coutinho (talk) 16:23, 16 October 2023 (UTC)


 * sure, ill undelete it, with also putting in the comment string to tell it is ported from Wikipedia. but, unless i am in a major editing season (eg. taking better screenshot for the wiki, voice uploading), i cannot really check if its broken or not until its either too early or too late


 * i will also lock all module created so only logged in and autoconfirmed user can edit, to prevent anon vandalism. because those guy is still around. just blocked another one yesterday for commiting the exact same vandalism (inserting false damage amount) for the Sniper Rifle. just check its edit history and see for yourself Randompeeponinternet (talk|contribs) 17:39, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Everything looks alright so far. Could you also undelete Module:Arguments now? The other modules I'll recreate in sandboxes myself. Alexis.coutinho (talk) 23:31, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * done Randompeeponinternet (talk|contribs) 05:47, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

RE: "CSS for reflist" and ""The Leaker" page incorrectly set up"
PS: i do this just so you can get a notification, in case you do not look at the Special:RecentChanges page. try not to reply here, but instead reply on the topic you posted on my talk page

for your first topic, im not entirely sure if or where this  is. i know how  work, given that i worked with html for a handful amount of time before, it is used to group together something on a section, and call out their respective class in the css file or tag. but im not sure which part of the code to insert in without breaking this wiki again. i dont know which option is better, but i could use the alternate, template style that the common.css can call it. but in general, i dont feel like editing the css file as i dont want to break anything, unless it is for a specific or special reason

for the second, i have changed the redirect to the correct subcategory, and unprotected the page. it was a 2011 decision from a currently inactive bureaucrat

also, other than this, the error that appear when i try to save edit and patrol new pages appear again. my theory could be due to the invalid templates and/or request for non-existing module that you just decide to keep them lying around. i dont think most of those template are needed. please remove them. remember that, because this wiki is small, we dont need a lot of the elements from Wikipedia here, especially if it break this wiki Randompeeponinternet (talk|contribs) 05:48, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

RE: Porting of templates
dont mind me much about it, its just the way i am. just beacuse it seem like i dont like it very much doesnt mean that i will stop you. accepting new things and big changes is difficult for me like almost all other people for when a change was made on their favorite thing, and its not the first time i act it this way anyway. im not going to start another rant about me being the only person that is guarding this wiki

as for the saving edit and patrolling error, i still havent bothered asking fandom staff the reason about it. im planning to also take a hold of the error for when i patrol a new thing, as i already wrote down the error for saving (see previous topic). i dont know why it is not popping up now, maybe its fandom end and not my end or your fault Randompeeponinternet (talk|contribs) 18:34, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I understand. Well, I hope everything works out in the end. ;) Alexis.coutinho (talk) 20:06, 28 October 2023 (UTC)


 * and by the way, i did say that the template need to be more l4d-theme thing. well, i plan to use the tick icon from the voting system for when you vote "yes", for done. it is very small (32x32) compared to the one from commons (600x600), but not that the tick icon is huge in the template anyway. do you want to swap to the l4d voting tick? you can see the icon yourself by opening pak01_dir.vpk in left4dead2 using GCFScape, go to materials>vgui>hud, and open vote_yes.vtf using VTFEditRandompeeponinternet (talk|contribs) 21:12, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
 * That's a good idea, . Alexis.coutinho (talk) 21:48, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't know what license to use though. Alexis.coutinho (talk) 22:19, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
 * since its from valve's game, mark it under "Fair use" license:


 * Randompeeponinternet (talk|contribs) 22:30, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Last Stand Refresh
ive been thinking about it for a while after you added in the "Reception" section and the video, and i have a few ideas for how to put in the Last Stand Refresh, or currently August 22, 2023 Update:


 * one, keep it as is
 * two, create a completely new page that summarize or explained what the update is about, while making August 22, 2023 Update be like a normal update logs, that only contains the update logs and the links to the source, no TOC or fancy stuff, like this Portal 2 patch log on the Portal Wiki
 * three, the same case will happen for August 22, 2023 Update page, but for Last Stand Refresh summarization or explanation, put it as a new section in The Last Stand Community Update

of course, i still havent think of whenever to give the change logs on Updates (Left 4 Dead 2) its own page or to keep it to 25-50 per pages, as it could be a possibility that the source link(s) to the change log is no longer available and is not archived on archive.org. but first, what do you think of these Randompeeponinternet (talk|contribs) 23:22, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I would prefer number two. Alexis.coutinho (talk) 01:05, 31 October 2023 (UTC)


 * then you can make Last Stand Refresh into an actual page instead of a redirect, summarize or explain whats the update is, and also move "Video" and "Reception" from August 22, 2023 Update page to there, but avoid creating a new page solely for a community member (Tsuey)


 * just keep the update page as is for now aside from moving some stuff through. i will clean it up a bit in the update log page later, as im currently busy doing translation works for some video games, around 500-600 strings every seasonal update for tf2 alone, and only now do i decide to start working with it


 * also, i just ask you a question, where or how do you know to get the undocumented changes. TFWiki patch logs page usually get it through analyzing files change reported from bots, at least thats what i think so, but im not sure how you know what to report as "undocumented changes" Randompeeponinternet (talk|contribs) 16:35, 31 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Alright, when I finish the changelog improvement I'll split the pages. I think for the reception we could get statistics from the update's discussion and those permanent feedback discussions in Steam. I get the undocumented changes from GitHub. I wonder what bots they use though, maybe they could be good. I only know of SteamDB's change feature that shows what files changed in an update and by how much, but it doesn't show the actual changes nor files. Alexis.coutinho (talk) 17:07, 31 October 2023 (UTC)


 * im not entirely sure if those github logs are techinically "undocumented", as it is linked on the update page currently, and it is from the last stand community github repository, unless we are staying true with using only logs from steam posts. one thing you could do is to separate which is from steam post and which is from github Randompeeponinternet (talk|contribs) 19:12, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It is only linked in the comment section of the update. Do you think Unofficial changes would be better? Or Other changes or Minor changes? Alexis.coutinho (talk) 20:31, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
 * what do you mean comment section? i think "GitHub update notes" is somewhat a better thing here, but i need to understand what do you mean "comment section", do you mean that because the repo is an archive it is served as a "comment" for the update, away from the public repository Randompeeponinternet (talk|contribs) 20:56, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I meant that the github changelog is not linked here, it's only linked here. Actually, the video is linked in the discussion section, the github changelog only appears on youtube. Alexis.coutinho (talk) 21:05, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
 * i still think "GitHub update notes" is a good one alongside with "Steam update notes" on top, but if you dislike it, then "Additional update notes" or "Unofficial update notes" is also fine alongside with regular "Update notes" or "Official update notes" on top. also, for the github link being linked in that comment sections, im not going to dig through it, even if it is lying on the second page


 * also, feel free to port over Outdent template for situation like this in which im doing right now. unless it is very dependent on modules or stuffs Randompeeponinternet (talk|contribs) 22:26, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
 * 👍 Alexis.coutinho (talk) 00:00, 1 November 2023 (UTC)