Talk:The Witch

Cr0wned
Has anyone been able to get the Cr0wned acheivemnt? We have tried close range hunting rifles, shotguns and more...

I think it might be a joke one, Cr0wned 
 * First of all, sign your posts, guys. Secondly, Valve never makes "joke" achievements, and they've used "tubespeak" (as I call it) in achievements before...remember the pyro pack's "OMGWTFBBQ?" And they had another "0wned" one before too, I just can't think of it at the moment. takua108 18:36, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm sure it's spelt Cr0wnd, and Takua108 could it be Hot PotatOwned you were thinking of :) -- [ IzTheWiz ] 21:47, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

It Is spelt Cr0wnd IzTheWiz. Its called Cr0wnd Because --TerrifiedToxic I LIKE Cheese 12:30, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * split the word up and you get two words Crown and owned(without the e)
 * Crown for shooting her in the head and Owned for totally owning the witch by killing one headshot.

Wandrian Wvlf 00:17, 7 December 2008 (UTC)Stand close enough to the Witch so that she starts standing up but isn't startled. Blast her with your shotgun.

A player named Exile gave me a handy script that makes it trivial to get this achievement (I used it for practice). It basically spawns a witch in front of you, gives you an auto-shotgun (regular shotgun works too) and then turns on god mode after your first shot (in case you missed, so you don't die needlessly). He said he was posting it on the internet, so in the near future there should be a Google result for "ezWitch.cfg". If you don't want to wait, you can just type: "sv_cheats 1; give auto_shotgun; z_spawn witch; god 1; sv_cheats 0;" in your console while pointing at where you want the witch to spawn, and then practice from there. Denkkar 22:37, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


 * But where's the fun in that? :P Ashsflames 07:50, 9 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The fun is the false confidence it gives you. After practicing and then starting a game, you yell to your friends, "STAND BACK, I'M A PROFESSIONAL", run up to the witch, and promptly get destroyed. The humiliation doesn't end there though, because the process repeats itself as soon as you meet the next witch :( Denkkar 18:55, 10 December 2008 (UTC)


 * DUDE. DENKKAR! U R HILARIOUS> I DIED LAFFING WHEN I READ THAT. JK. but seriously. i didn't die laughing, but it was pretty funny. SuperMutantSlayer450


 * To practice cr0wning a witch,just go into NM3 on commentary.There's commentary node at the end that spawns the witch everytime it's used and if you don't kill her in one shot,she won't attack and you can just keep practicing.--76.242.46.206 19:41, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

It's easy an possible. However you can only do it with the shotgun at execution range. Even the Hunting Rifle requires more than a single shot.

Expert incapacitation exploit?
The shooting a teammate on expert so that the Witch won't kill that teammate sounds like an exploit to me. Also kind of funny that you even discovered this... guess someone got in your line of fire :)

Denkkar 20:21, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunetely, it doesn't work, as i've been incapped and startled the Witch and she still killed me...

The Witch's health.
Wandrian Wvlf 00:15, 7 December 2008 (UTC)I haven't but a few dozen hours playing the game, but in my experience the Witch normally has 1000 health although for some reason I've tooled around on the easy difficulty and seen the damage done total up to 2000 a few times.

In retrospect, it may have just been that I'd encountered a Witch twice in the same chapter. Wandrian Wvlf 00:43, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, one suspects you may also have encountered 2 tanks in the same chapter as well. It happens and it does screw the stats! Denkkar 18:50, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Is there any way to move the dead witch pic to the right side of the page like the other pics as it looks out of place on the left and disrupts the flow of the text--Spygon 16:21, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Reupload it, I suppose. I'll give it a try. ZombieRevolution

A Section on her inspiration?
Just the other day, I viewed the popular Spanish movie REC. It is considered one of the finest zombie films and documentary style fictions of recent years and was recently remade in the US and released as the movie Quarantine.

In the film's finale the two protagonists run into an infected woman. She is seriously deformed and carries many traits of the Witch.

Here is a picture of the character:



Notice the similar looking attire. Of course Left 4 Dead's Witch isn't topless but the visual similarities are obvious. You can't tell from that picture, but she has claws in the feature. Furthermore in the film she did not get aggressive until startled by the protagonists. Characters made it an important precaution not to make noises or shine lights on her or other infected persons.

Here is a clip of the movie's finale where she appears. Of course it carries many spoilers, and I would recommend this movie to anyone who likes horror movies and zombie fiction.



Note the glowing eyes due to the effects of night vision and bloodcurdling shriek.

Although it's only speculation, I would like to add a section about the REC zombie as the basis for the Witch. My reasoning being that it's informative and that on the Francis and Louis pages, it states that they're modeled after Mike Booth and Shaun from Shaun of the Dead without completely conclusive evidence. However the similarities with all of these characters is obvious and they without a doubt stem from them. REC has become a highly talked about movie with zombie and horror enthusiasts in recent years and received a large audience and rave reviews across the Spectrum.

I say go for it, but since none of it is confirmed by Valve, I'd make sure to emphasize that all information therein is speculative. - User:ZombieRevolution

I remember a VERY old article about L4D in 2007 and it mentioned the Witch,so I doubt it.--76.242.46.206 19:38, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Removed this tidbit:
"*In one of the trailers, where an arm bursts through a doorway besides Louis, who then shoots it, it is believed that this is a Witch due to the fact that it has the strength to hit through the door and the fact that it has claws. This is verified in the games opening cinematic."

It's not informative, the game is out and everyone knows this. 23:26, 28 July 2009 (UTC)$$Insert formula here$$

Umm he pisses the witch off 3 seconds before that happened so ...WTF --Ill97 23:48, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Eminem?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJpNCcKk__Q&feature=related

Is he talking about Left 4 Dead?

In any case, people have picked up on it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQGWQpN6oF4&feature=related
 * I think it was supposed to be talking about another Witch, not the one from Left 4 Dead. I believe it was used for promotional means in another series. - §tigma-231 ¤ ৳ here's a hole in my neighbourhood [ talk  ][ cont ] 16:36, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

They were parodying The 'Blair witch project'. So no, definitely not about OUR Witch.

Tank can kill Witches
Simply put, if you're a Tank and you punch a Witch, you'll instantly kill her. This happens a lot when a Witch is in front of a closed door, and a Tank Player tries to reach the survivors from a distance away.
 * This is actually relatively odd, considering the Tanks punches don't do enough damage to kill a Witch. It must've been a deliberate design decision on Valves part. Probably to avoid the very thing you mentioned.--CloudT 19:44, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

Playing as the Witch:
This would be an interesting add-on to the game. To play as a Tank, someone is randomly chosen to massacre the survivors (You will be the Tank). Well, they could do the same thing for the Witch. If someone startles the Witch in versus, someone could be randomly chosen to play as her. Her main attack is incapacitating a survivor in one hit (Long recharge rate though), secondary is slashing with her claws and her health would be 1000-2000. Achievement: Witch's wrath: Kill one of the survivors. Desterbing: As a Witch, kill two survivors.
 * As cool as playing as the Witch could be, it would be a little disorienting for the player to suddenly become the Witch once she is startled. It would take the player a second or two to get their bearings, and by this time the Survivors are already shooting at her. If a player was allowed to start as the Witch, that would solve this problem, but cause another. If the Witch spawns in a spot off the main path, or if the Survivors sneak by her without startling her, the Witch player would be stuck doing nothing. Also, having a player play as the Witch would take away her uniqueness. --MadDawg2552 20:47, 22 February 2009 (UTC)


 * You make a valid point Mad Dawg, this is how choosing who to play as her would go out: Once a player gets close enough to her that she startles growling, the special infected you are curretly playing as (remember, the person controling the Witch is picked randomly, like a Tank) will be moved to idle, and you will be in the Witchs view; if she is shot at or eventually gets up, you will then play as her, unless she is "CR0WNED". Or, in your scenario, if the players do get past her, she will eventually revert back to crying, and you will move back to your special infected, and the witch will stay where she is, without the player being in limbo with nothing to do. -- User:Monobrow1 16:23, 22 Febuary 2009 (UTC)

I the witch wasnt made a playable infected for a reason due to if a person controled the witch they whould either waste alot of time just sitting there crying also when alerted the witch is surposed to attack the person who set it off to players just running around like an idiot shooting randomlyor you have the other problem of a infected that can one hit incap people so with 4 swipes could end the round in secounds.I feel the witch is fine she just needs slighty more health. Spygon 09:46, 23 February 2009 (UTC)


 * UHH! You arn't listening! The person playing as the Witch WON'T sit there the whole time until someone comes. Once she is starting to growl, someone will be choosen (icon will say "You may play as the Witch, be ready", similar to Tank icon), then once startled the person can play as her. If they sneak past, then nothing happens. Also (you didn't read it) the Witch can't just keep doing her "incap. claw attack". It will have to recharge after some time until she can utilize that attack, like boomer bile and smoker tongue; You have to wait to use your main attck. So after the incap. claw attack is used, she will only be able to melee, with a bit more damage than other special infected. And for HP, 2000=too much, 1000=too little...1500=just right. -- User:Monobrow1 3:27 PM Febuary 23 2009 (UTC)


 * Know what would be even more fun?! Playing as a bullet. SteveZombie 17:49, October 16, 2009 (UTC)


 * Hahahah!! Rofl XD I wanna play as the Hunter's shoe. Jo the Marten  �  ( Shriek )  ಠ_ಠ  17:53, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

This would be interesting in the old game because the witch killed everyone! bu now shes only allowed to attack 1 survivor so playing as her is pointless. Also if you played as a witch you would probably not be able to kill EVERYONE so you would need a rediculous amount of health.

In left 4 dead 2, since the witch will be wandering during the daytime, maybe a player will get to be a witch, and walk around, but can't attack until u r startled. also, u would move slow, like the tank ( sort of) SuperMutantSlayer450

Actually, I don't think you can startle a Wandering Witch, as it states that she can sneak up on you, and she will probably be playable in the next game because of this trait. I'm thinking how it's going to go is as the wandering witch you will have to wander around looking for the survivors but I don't think you'll be bale to run until they are actually in your view, at which point you can claw or incapacitate them. Since she is that powerful, if she is playable, they will most likely add a patience meter on her like they do the Tank, but maybe not due to her having less health than the Tank.

In an official Valve article, it said the witch still has to be startled to attack, it just moves around, making it harder to avoid.--Supermutantslayer450 01:30, September 9, 2009 (UTC)

Yes but it would suck if in versus the survivor players pass right by you. Looks like you stuck as the witch for the whole chapter.--Kirby888 23:53, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

What they really need is another game mode, kinda like a team deathmatch where players choose a team (survivor or infected) and simply battle it out. Although it would be more than just 4v4, rather 8v8 (or 8v10 for balance). No objectives other than kill the opposing team, and you would respawn after being killed (and the only time you would see common infected is after a boomer attack). As the infected, you would be able to choose from the default boomer, smoker, or hunter, and the tank an witch would be availible almost like a perk. For example, after a certain amount of time / kills, or simply randomly chosen by the AI director as in versus, a player would be selected to play as the tank or witch. As the witch, you would spawn somewhere on the map (but sitting and crying). The player makes the choice to spawn as the witch tactically, functioning more as a land mine, where if any survivors come near, you may get up and attack them. If after a few minutes, no survivors disturb you, the witch would disappear and you would select one of the default infected and simply continue playing. In this respect, the witch is more of a short-term bonus rather than a dedicated class of playable special-infected. I though it was a valid idea. --118.210.24.36 10:38, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

The best way I could actually think to do it is to make it where you spawn way ahead of the Survivors as a wandering Witch, with the same spawn icons as the Tank, then you can walk, albeit slowly, into a suitable ambush postion. It would make for interesting gameplay, maybe difficult for Survivors, but it would also allow for the people playing the Infected to have a little bit more fun. I'll elaborate at a later date once I think it more thuroughly thru and it isn't about 2:30 A.M.

Instead of playing as her, It would be nice to choose where she spawns. Think about it. You could put her in the most inconvenient spot in the game and the survivors would be like >:o and you would be like LOLOLOLOL.--Dfskelleton 23:06, December 9, 2009 (UTC)

I really like the whole idea of placing the Witch in a spot of your choice.. Like Dfskelleton said, they would be like -ZOMGWTFBBQ Why is she RIGHT THERE?" Then the player as the witch would be like "lulz pwned sucker" But then I would think it would also be pretty cool, that if they startled you as the Witch then you would go into this sort of vision that only made you see the person who startled you, like tunnle vision -if you will- making it so that you only focus on the one person and no one else, and if they go around a corner or into a door, they cast a different colored glow, but you dont have the tunnle vision when they are out of your site. And if they get away from you for a certain amount of time -perhaps a time limit is set as to how long they can be out of your site, like 5 seconds or so- then you can choose another spot to spawn. Thoughts? I actually like my idea- Zephusa

Don't like, it would be very hard for the survivors, imagine that 3 are black and white and the other is dead, reaching the safehouse and suddendly OMGPLZ Witch at the door. What I would do is make the witch stronger, faster, easier to be startled or that she attacks the whole team, lots of players take the Witch as a joke now that there are ways to kill her that are easier than sneaking.  LaZa  22:42, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

Dude i totally get what your saying!!!!! that would be awsome

or at lest put her in more inconvienient locations. there was like ONE time where she was right in front of an MG barrel. otherwise she kinda just hides in corners. though to be fair you can startle her in a good deal of ways. if youre playing expert and in alevel with a witch and you sneeze you'll spook her.DisMEMBAH 17:50, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

New Witch Skin?


I'v looked round on fpsbannana.com and playin onlin and alot of ppl think the witch skin is funny, should someone make a new witch skin like this??? versus the original (concept art image, not actual Witch):
 * Weird image. Why would you want to put pants on it, though? I think the Witch looks perfectly fine without them, though sometimes I wonder...why does she sit around in nothing but undergarments? - §tigma-231 ¤ ৳ here's a  hole  in my neighbourhood [ talk  ][ cont ] 02:52, 24 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I think the Witch would look cool with pants and blood 2. Like at first she is crying, but when people get up to her, she has her shirt and pants covered in blood (at least by pic), so it matchs her role in da game, innopcent and CREEPY LONG FINGERED WITCH CLAWIN THE CRAP OUTA ME! ther wuz already a skin like that but they over did the blood and added cuts, and the pants were skin tight jeans, not shorts. Thta skin is kk. But someone could make a skin like that, idd download that, but honestlly, the witch is fine the way she is.


 * I would'nt go so overboard with the Witch like in the pic (blood, ect.), just add shorts really. The fact that she is in undergarments all the time it just...well it is not sexy if thats what the design was for...it is funny, but is the Witch supposed to be funny?...Giving it shorts would just make more sense. I think the question is, if someone made a Witch skin with shorts rather than undergarments...would you download that, would you rather have the skin with shorts, rather than the one with panties. I think I would. -- User:Monobrow1

I think that image is from the strategy guide.--76.242.46.206 19:35, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Recent Patch
Because of the recent patch, does the Witch spawn directly on the main route to the saferoom now? The patchnotes said she and the Tank spawn "directly on the escape route," so what does that mean, exactly? BlackliteWrath 12:38, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure it means that the Tank and Witch are now much more likely to spawn in the way of the route(s) to the safe house. - §tigma-231 � ৳ hаt i ɯill nəvər escaρe [ łalk  ][ ςont ] 15:45, 25 March 2009 (UTC)


 * But only on versus, right? TheCreaturenator16 14:08, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No, in every gametype. I've noticed that she spawns in the way much more often when my friends and I play campaign. - §tigma-231 � o  ƒ  my caliber { τalk }{¢ont } 14:24, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hm. That's interesting. Thanks. TheCreaturenator16 16:30, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

"Don't scare me twice"
The Witch, obviously, can be startled; Once the Witch has killed whoever startled her, it IS possible, to scare her, again. When she is running, if a player has a molotov, and ignites her, she will go after THAT player too. This is something people should be weary of, especially on versus, or on expert. The Witch if startled twice, she has the potential to kill two survivors, this incident has happened once while I played. It is also rumored, that if you stay in the Witch's path when she is fleeing, OR shoot at her as she is running, she will attack you still. Is that possible, has THAT ever happened to anyone? --User:Monobrow1
 * Yeah, the trapping her as she was running happened to a friend of mine when we were playing on Expert, and I've startled a Witch when she was running away before. I've also seen Witches (only on Expert, though) run away and go right back into hiding (i.e. starting to cry again) after she kills a Survivor if she doesn't get killed before she flees. It kind of sucks. --User:Chitinous Necross
 * Most of the time, we're able to kill the Witch before she successfully kills any one of us, so there's not really a large window for her to go running off, screaming her head off. However, there have been some slightly awkward occasions where I've accidentally opened/shut a door on her, and she has a seizure and runs away. Once I did it on The Town, and she just stood behind a truck and screamed until the AI brought her down. Needless to say, it was...strange. - §tigma-231 � ৳ hаt i ɯill nəvər escaρe [ łalk  ][ ςont ] 16:11, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I know that- its when if a witch is in a doorway before she is startled and you close the door on her it will cause a glitch that traps her in the door for a couple of seconds before resetting the AI to free her, at this point she no longer chases the suvivor and just does what she usually does after she kills the startler eg. running around screaming,you could exploit this by being able to get rid of any witches that the director has spawned in doorways without a fight. --Chicago Ted 20:13, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I was standing in front of her and francis startled her and she incapacitated meh.--Dfskelleton 23:10, December 9, 2009 (UTC)

Fuel bottle for Burn the Witch achievement
About a week ago, I was playing L4D on Live, and I was carrying a fuel bottle. I managed to get the witch angry a bit, then was unable to escape her proximity before she got pissed enough to attack. She knocked me down and started mauling me, and I looked over and saw my fuel bottle. I shot it and the witch lit up like a Christmas tree. I then get the popup saying I got the Burn the Witch achievement. Now I noticed the achievement details saying a fuel bottle does not work, but I think I've seen myself that it does, in fact, work. Unless it doesn't work on the PC version, I think the article should be changed to reflect the fact that it does work. MaverickStevens 08:24, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Why Does the Witch act this way?
This is what I have narrowed it down to: 1.) This is just an act, she does this to fool survivors into helping her, which results in their death.

2.) Unlike other infected, she does have a brain, and has prezombie memories which means she may be recalling the killing and death of friends and loved ones.

3.) She chooses not to fight, starving herself (pain of starvation=crying, also explains why she looks skinny).

So if that is why she crys, why does she kill survivors, but not consume them, and why does she run after they die? Is this a variation of "The Rage" virus, so she just kills survivors out of spite...or is there a good reason behind it all.... --User:Monobrow1

I'd say that it was just the first one if the Witch attacked any Survivor immediately on sight, with no warning, growling or startling, and she attacked all of the Survivors, not just one (or, very rarely, two). However, since that was the original design and it was deemed too harsh by Valve, her new actions may be just for gameplay balance. The attacking all survivors, not necessarily the no startling or provoking. --User:Chitinous Necross

i feel theres a slight bit of Humanity left in the witch but is struggling to fight off the infection causing the witch to have a very shattered and mucked up mind that can lead to outbursts of total rage.She is crying due to trying to hold on to her humanity while being bombarded with the urge and memories of killing people but when she it startled or attacked her shattered mind is over come by the infected rage impulses and instanly kills the person that caused the outburst but after quickly realising what she has done she escape the scene to try to stop her totally losing it.158.230.100.102 09:18, 1 April 2009 (UTC)


 * She does cover her face and head with her hands after fleeing, meaning she could now extremely regret attacking the survivors. She runs off crying and shouting, meaning that she possibly didn't mean to hurt them, it is just her infection that makes her do it? -- [ IzTheWiz ] 09:56, 1 April 2009 (UTC)


 * And after the short sprint, she dissapears. How do you call that? Magical infection? --SilentShadow 06:23, 27 May 2009 (UTC)


 * No, if you watch carefully, she climbs up and over something that goes out of the map. Like, on The Apartments, she climbs over one of those wooden fences or the pile of fire escape rubble. TheCreaturenator16 14:07, 27 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Also, the pain of starvation one is probably incorrect, because no infected have ever been witnessed eating anything. Victims, animals, random plant life. Nothing. TheCreaturenator16 16:32, 27 May 2009 (UTC)


 * They eat actualy: 1.Dead cows have their heads eaten away (only the skull if left. 2.Zoey's quote "...I've got tooth marks all over me". 3.The infected spread in the form or rabbies, meaning they bite someone to assimilate them, which implies that they eat flesh. 4.The infected vomit alot while idle, if they wouldn't eat anything, they couldn't vomit anything up, moreever so much of it. --SilentShadow 18:35, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That, and Bill says: "If I go down, don't let those bastards eat me." Then again, graffiti on Dead Air claims that "They don't eat" and "They don't sleep". -- Five Dog ( Talk ){ Updates } 21:46, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I think the graffiti means that they do not stop to eat, they feast on the go! --SilentShadow 22:06, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is spread through biting, because it's a form of rabies, but who said that those cows weren't killed by humans? I mean, they're in piles. Also, sometimes the zombies who are vomiting will just die for no reason. Additionally, the substance they vomit appears to be bile. You make lots of bile. Bill is probably just misinformed, and the infected don't actually bite the survivors because they sense somehow that they are immune, they just beat them. TheCreaturenator16 22:12, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with the cows in the piles. In Dead Air, an evacuation poster asks if you have been in contact with livestock in the past 48 hours. Taking this to be an indication that it was widely believed that the infection originated in cattle, farmers were quick to respond and were forced to kill and dispose of their livestock. Resulting in the pile of corpses. However, there are many cow skeletons in Blood Harvest indicating that they may have been eaten away at by the horde. As to your point about not biting, it wouldn't really work to have a "biting" animation. As it stands, the zombies appear to hit you. But they may in fact be biting as well. Hitting looks fine, but to have a zombie "bite the air" and it somehow hurt you, would not look right. To counter this, the infected would have to grab you first and then bite. Much like in "Dead Rising". This would completely destroy the game mechanics and wouldn't fit in to gameplay. I believe that the designers simplified the infected's actions so they appear to just thump you. And about the graffiti: "They don't eat". It is implied from this that they don't eat at all because it is followed up with: "What keeps them going?" If they did eat, this wouldn't be a valid question. -- Five Dog ( Talk ){ Updates } 23:09, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * So the Witch leaves the survivors alone because she knows they are immune. But when they get close enough, she attacks them in self defense, but since the infected don't eat (stated above), she just runs off instead. One thing is left untold though. Why does she cry? If she had memories of human life, she wouldn't attack them in the first place(so recalling memories is probobly incorrect); and why does she get spooked by lights and kill whoever is holding them. (and just to say, why do her eyes glow?). Monobrow1 23:26, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

All valid points but why is she half naked?Derekproxy 22:09, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well there's no real way to answer that. It's like asking why do all hunters wear blue hoodies, or why each tank wears identical trousers or even why each Boomer is bloated in the exact same way as the next. There's no real reason behind it; it's simply to make the character interesting, unique and memorable. -- Five Dog ( Talk ){ Updates } 22:18, 31 May 2009 (UTC)


 * At least they made sure she was only half naked as two weirdos on the FEAR wiki got into it over alma being naked and "Hot" scary huhDerekproxy 22:39, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

i belive the idea that she was pregnant at the time of her infection this would explain her mood swings and maybe stems cells caused her freakish powers and long nail

oh yeah ummmmm no offense to anyone expecting...congradulations

Totemtrouser 05:06, 12 July 2009 (UTC)totemtrouserTotemtrouser 05:06, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

if the witch kills someone and you follow her(i did this as a hunter because my friend told me too) She actually kills herself! she will run off a building or into fire! weird......--Ill97 18:33, 27 July 2009 (UTC)


 * While all of the points raised above may be plausible, I doubt any of them are actually true. Her retaining elements of humanity, fear of the dark, mood swings, etc. The reason she cries and attacks while screaming psychotically is purely aesthetic. Its because its creepy and is cinematically effective. The idea of a girl with red eyes crying in the dark, and attacking like a rabid animal when startled simply works in a horror setting, and does not necessarily need a rational scientific explaination. Moreover, I doubt it will ever be officially explained, because as soon as you explain something in a horror setting, it loses its scariness. Speculation is all well and good in the talk page, but until confirmed, none of it should be making its way into the article. Therefore, I have removed the references to the witch being afraid of the dark in the article. --Aerid77 05:07, October 27, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well-written and perfectly explained, but there's just one flaw. That being that the ones that come up with their theories about the Witch are irreversibly convinced they're true. Even the ones fluent in English aren't likely to give common sense a try. SteveZombie 22:36, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

We call the act of crying in the middle of no where EMO.--Kirby888 04:37, November 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * We don't all live in the same world as you. SteveZombie 22:38, November 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * I call crying in the middle of nowhere... crying in the middle of nowhere. *Gasp* Imperialscouts 01:15, November 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * Haha very funny imperial scouts--TeriffiedToxic 10:15, November 11, 2009 (UTC)

I think the Witch was a "Carrier". A Graffiti in the Subway explains that some people who are immune are actually Carriers of the virus.

I'm just gonna go with the witch using these features as a hunting method. i.e: Oh! Look a helpless girl on the ground lets help he...OH MY GOD SHE'S CLAWING MY FACE OFF! But why she leaves I don't know, maybe she's just not greedy. Wups forgot my name Themanwiththeplan

well, i got a little theory of my own ;) 1: she could be scared of the dark, and the infected around her might not make things better. (therefore crying) 2: when she growls and starts to stand up it's probably to warn the survivors that she is dangerous. at the same time the sight of the survivors makes the infection "take her over" meaning that she goes into kill mode like other infected. once she kills she realices what she has done and escapes in fear. (you also have the fact that the other survivors are opening fire on her...) 3: sudden fright (ie, survivor shooting her without killing or fire) the infection (ie, instincts) take over and she goes after the one who shot her. then she repeats the above (fleeing).

as for where she goes; she might despawn, or find another place to settle down in. just my two cents Veranen 10:46, November 23, 2009 (UTC)

My though on her behavior is: the infection stain she has gives her the long nails, andExtremelysensitive glowing red eyes (Hence the reaction to flashlights). Gunfire and fire, Self defence. Now the crying, she remebers who she was how looked maybe and knows how far her life has degraded. Also, she doesn't want anyone to see her like this.Hence her reaction to survivors. Thats my two cents anyways.--98.30.15.40 13:32, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

I was thinking why she crys would be perhaps like someone said something about loosing loved ones and friends. So perhaps when she is mourning her loss by crying the night away, and she sees the survivors suddenly come out of no where perhaps she saw them as the people who killed all those she loved and trusted? Or perhaps like the Witch Wiki stated, she crys becuase she is slightly human and there is just alot of pain from the infection in her, causing her to cry with pain. Or another thought of mine would be she crys because she has no clue wat is going on and when she sees these survivors she doesn't know to who they are or why they are even there, thus going into attack mode. And perhaps she runs away after the attack covering her face and screaming is because she doesn't want to be known as a killer -another part of her slightly but barley human trait- or because she didn't want anyone to see her in such a state of agony and pain.. Then brings back another theory of her crying. Perhaps she like all infected never intended to be this way, or she was in the middle of something great in life -prom, graduation blah blah blah- causing to cry of her loss and all.. Any thoughts?-Zephusa

Maybe the Witch was Bipolar before she was infected, now as an infected her Depressive phase is when she is sitting and crying, and her Manic phase is after you've startled her and she attacks and otherwise freaks out.

___________________________________________________________

I've heard she is crying because she still has half of her human side, crying for her new self. Her human side doesn't want to kill you, so she delays when she sees you. Eventually, her infection takes over and she kills you, sees your body, and her human side is devastated. She runs away, obviously ashamed...

-MountainDew150

Cool Story Bro.

Grand theft automobile 09:36, March 15, 2010 (UTC)

All of the zombies have brains. They just dont work well. btw, my theory on all of the infected is that they just run on instinct. What kind of infected you become depends on the infection, not your lifestyle.Vaxnil

I personally think that the infection makes the infected see themselves as survivors and see survivors as infected. meaning the witch kills a survivors because she SEE'S a infected, and runs away because she then fears that other 'infected' might be nearby. she might be crying because she saw the survivors killing infected, and saw them as infected killing survivors. 90.193.140.244 18:28, April 24, 2010 (UTC) toyah9

Assault Rifle
"A recent glitch or Easter egg in the game has been discovered which allows the assault rifle to shoot an entire clip of ammo in one shot. You can accomplish this by switching to your pistols and holding melee, switching back to the Assault Rifle (while still holding melee), then holding down shoot along with melee, after about 5 to 7 seconds letting go of melee while still holding shoot. If done correctly it should allow you to do the specified glitch or Easter egg."

If I'm not mistaken, the Assault rifle now has the potential to kill the witch easily. This only works if you have the Survival Mode update. As her max health is 1000 and damage per magazine for said weapon is 1600, this glitch can - I can confirm it - kill the witch instantly. It does not even startle her. Also, considering the fact that you can shoot from neutral range, i.e. From a distance that will not begin to alert her, this is far safer. It is also easier, because you do not have to land headshots, all you have to do is make sure they hit her somewhere. It is MUCH safer than a shotgun headshot. With this in mind, Valve may patch this, so I was wondering if we should add this as a viable tactic for killing the witch. Unless it's there somewhere and I've missed it? -- Five Dog (talk) 18:51, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Tried it on PC version of Left 4 dead patch 1.0.1.3, the easter egg is either fixed or false. I've tried everything to the letter and it still shoots normaly after the mellee is let go. --SilentShadow 19:58, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Well it certainly works on the Xbox360. I've just done it. Perhaps it's another update that PC users get first? -- Five Dog (talk) 20:02, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I Dought it, XBox and Play Station (A.K.A. CrapBox and Piss Station) always get games and updates sooner then the PC does. Don't beleave me? Look at Halo release dates, GTA4 release dates and so on... I think that "easter egg" is just a coding error made in the XBox version. --SilentShadow 20:07, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Heheheh. Alright first off, it's the Gaystation and the SexBox. That's what people seem to call them. Don't know why it's "Sex"Box though. And second, do you have Survival Mode installed? I think it came with that DLC.
 * Oh, and no need to be angry towards other consoles. -- Five Dog (talk) 20:12, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Not to get angry? They're the competitors of my gaming system, they're imposible to contol (especialy in FPS games including L4D), they can't do anything else then play overpriced games at sooner release dates and still get some glory... What's not to hate? All they ever achieved is stealing cash from PC gaming advancedment... --SilentShadow 20:20, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * BTW look at this, maybe you'll see things my way: CrapBox is plainly crap and PC is a thing that goes to the starts...

What did I just say? There's NO need to hate on other consoles. You're happy with the PC and I'm happy with the Xbox. We're getting off topic here, if you don't have an answer to my original question then that's alright. But if you want to have a console/computer flame-war then by all means do. But not here. It's hardly practical to have a disscussion about this on Talk:Witch. -- Five Dog (talk) 20:30, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * And in this case the XBox is an abomination of the PC, created by some witch, it's all on topic.
 * I answered your question looong ago: it's probably an error made in the code of CrapBox's L4D.
 * As I recall I told you what is the readon to hate consoles just 10 minutes ago.
 * BTW this is a board created, edited and viewed with the PC, not CrapBox. --SilentShadow 20:35, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Your rant is over. Take this somewhere else. --86.45.196.216 12:37, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, exactly. You need to stop your argument here. Take it up somewhere else. -- Five Dog ( Talk ) 12:42, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Last time I checked this was a discussion, if you view it as a rant - you need help. --SilentShadow 12:45, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

No matter what you call it, it's finished. -- Five Dog ( Talk ) 12:48, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

No matter what you think it was finished at "--SilentShadow 20:35, 14 May 2009 (UTC)" --SilentShadow 12:50, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Alright, I'm finishing this. Would the two of you stop bickering like preschoolers who think one toy is cooler than the other? It doesn't matter. As long as the system can play a game, it's a fine system. There's absolutely no sense in arguing about it, because you're just going to keep going on and on about it until the end of time. It's just a fight where there is no victor. - §tigma-231 � o  ƒ  my caliber { τalk }{¢ont } 14:44, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Juuuust great... More assholes join the fray... Poking their noses where they don't belong... --SilentShadow 14:48, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm just trying to keep the peace. You're the one who's being a jerk by continuing what's now over. After this, no responses trying to fuel the flame should be acknowledged by anyone. Understand? - §tigma-231 � o  ƒ  my caliber { τalk }{¢ont } 14:54, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I ended the discussion long ago, your tries to "keep the peace" do noting more then annoy. --SilentShadow 14:58, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Can someone please lock this section? It seems that these children can't agree on which toy to play obsessively. Anyway, are you guys sure that you can't do it on PC? I'm pretty sure I did it accidentally the other day. TheCreaturenator16 03:42, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 1. This was finished over a long time ago. 2. You are just an idiot, do not think you are above the others, save your "children" chatter because I'm probably older then you anyway. 3. This is not a forum, you can't lock this because it's not a topic or a thread. 4. If you think you did it on the PC then make a video of it so that we can see for our selves and not take your word for pure coin. --SilentShadow 10:04, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 1. Dude, thanks for correcting me. I now have learned, even though you are wrong. 2. I don't remember how I did it, but I'll play some more after my finals are over and try to get back to you guys. TheCreaturenator16 22:37, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, and by the way, did you call Stigma an asshole? Wow, dude, bad move. TheCreaturenator16 22:37, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 1.I'm wrong about nothing. 2.Ever heard of "screenshot or it didn't happen? well screenshots are easily faked so I say "video or it didn't happen, I have L4D up to the latest patch and it doesn't work. 3.I didn't say "asshole" I said "assholes", "more assholes" to be precice, that means everyone who wrote something, are writting something and will write something to me at this thread are assholes, including you. 4.I ended this topic multiple times, if you must post and can't understand this topic is finished then you're not just an asshole, but more like a retarded asshole. --SilentShadow 22:40, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Alright, this topic is finished. If it's to find out about the glitch, start a new topic, otherwise, no further posts on this topic by anybody. -- Five Dog ( Talk ){ Updates } 22:44, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

i really don't want to get a flame war started up, but just to say xbox and ps3 get updates for multiplatform games later IF EVER. for the pc patches and updates are relitivly easy, but for multicore systems like the ps3, multithreading is required. according to gabe newell, naughty dog is the most advanced at this. Shancad 12 08:00, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

The "power shooting" and "ghost slashing" gliches were both fixed for the 360 atleast with the crash course patches.Even though both were discovered on the pc. undeadshark--98.30.15.40 13:46, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

What does this Massive arguement about Which console is better got to do with killing a witch instanly with an assault rifle hmmmm--User:TeriffiedToxicBrandyBuB is my new nickname 12:15, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

No offense but the topic is not finished. I agree with Five Dog the Xbox 360 is way better than a gay PC. Seriously, why won't you kids just make up and say sorry to each other. I am just helping everyone become adults.

Walking Witch?
In one of the gameplay on E3 I notice the player passing a Witch that walks and cries. This is both a good and bad idea. Good idea it makes it more challenging to pass her. But bad idea is it can walk and cry at the sametime. Make this lil bit in reality Valve.--Kirby888 19:46, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Uhh, I can walk and cry at the same time. That's realistic. Would you rather it didn't cry and came up behind you silently and suddenly "You've startled the Witch!"? Because I certainly wouldn't! -- Five Dog ( Talk ){ Updates } 20:20, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought Five Dog couldn't cry! - §tigma-231 � o  ƒ  my caliber { τalk }{¢ont } 22:18, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Five Dog weeps for those He cannot protect. -- Five Dog ( Talk ){ Updates } 22:19, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Of course he does. Now, I feel that the walking witch is a good addition. It was too easy for players to simply ignore her in the first game. Now, you really have to pay attention to her. On the flip side, if she's blocking the path, you can just wait for her to wander out of the way. Be careful, though. She might wander towards you!
 * Sitting and waiting for her to move might be a bad idea. Remember if you sit in one spot for too long you can attract a small horde and special infected.--Luciner99 05:21, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Good Point That would be a challenge

TheCreaturenator16 05:02, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * THATS WHY IN THE NEXT L4D THERE WILL BE WALKING CRYING TALKING WITCHES SO YOU CAN TELL EM MOVE! --71.70.80.147 22:20, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * There's more information about the Wandering Witch here: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/06/01/left-4-dead-2-exclusive-rps-preview/, I'm still not sure if it will be a separated Infected of just an upgrade like the Hazmat-suited Infected. Zikkun 11:09, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

it need to be add that the witch can be killed with an axe shot to the back of the head if you read the GI article it states and i quote "if you sneak up behind the witch and plant the axe in the back of her head, you'll take her down in one hit" i posted this early but some asshole changed it.

--Ill97 23:46, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * She only walks during day time
 * if she spawned in a random path that he director changed she could wander back into the battle or something
 * She could walk off a roof and own a survivor LOL

I hear she sings as she wanders around creapy eah.Zombie god 1996

What the fuck, has this entire article have Aids or what? The grammar is shit and its often repeating its self.

Question
I was playing with my friends in the Drains in Death Toll and near the safe house, we saw a witch. I told my friend to shoot her (it's his 1st time) but when he shot her w/ an assault rifle the witch disappeared. No body or anything she wasn't even startled. Why? Dabrules 11:32, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Glitches-
For those of you who have taken the time to wright all this stuff I comend you, however some of your info is wrong. the power shot glitch was in the game from the beggining, patched fairly quickly on pc version but kept in on the xbox. you don't need the survival dlc to do it.

also the last post on this thread takes me back... its happend a couple of times. the witch has been in the way somewhere and we see her... then she moves almost like teleports to another nearby location. it is rare but can happen. 80.41.214.141 07:28, 29 July 2009 (UTC) Nevac 666

Melee
"'Melee usually fails against a Witch, but if you're backing away and she's closing fast, it's worth a try. Do it earlier than you think you should; she has a long reach.'"

Is there any evidence that melee ever works on the Witch? Shidou 22:44, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That sentence is contradictory...It fails, but they want you to use it anyways? >.> Powers38Talk 02:33, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I've only tried it once and it failed. Not to mention that if she running at you, and you melee her....:| I guess its safe to say that it does not work. I'll go remove it Angelofdeath275 04:15, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, my friend accidentally startled a witch, got incapped, and was being torn to shreds. I, stupidly, had grabbed an auto shotty, needed to reload right away, and, opting a strategy i use all the time, meleed her a few times, and she just slumped to the floor. She didn't have a dramatic death like she was killed with pistols or other guns, so im pretty sure the melee killed her. Sorry i didnt have a video or anything to put up. I dont record everytime i play like some people i know. if i do capture it, ill post it.--Supermutantslayer450 01:56, September 9, 2009 (UTC)

The melee does work on the witch but only if she is stunned by a propane tank or a headshot sniped from a hunting rifle.Junedude433 04:38, March 12, 2010 (UTC)

Health
The infobox says her health is 2,000 on expert, but on the Difficulty article it says it's 1,000 on expert. Somebody changed the infobox like a week or two ago going in increments of five hundred, because before it only listed easy and normal (stating her health was 500 and 1,000 respectively). — Baltro [  talk  ·  edits  ] 21:27, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe that her health is 1000 on normal, advanced and expert. It is certainly 500 on easy, that is assured. For the time being, until confirmation appears, I will change it to state: "1,000", rather than "2,000". Thanks for pointing it out. :) -- Five Dog ( Talk ){ Updates } 21:31, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * By the way, I was fooling around with sv_cheats the other day on expert, and I killed one Witch, and when the stats screen came up on the loading screen to the next chapter, I had done the most damage to the Witch: exactly 1,000 (I FFed the bots in the safe room). — Baltro [  talk  ·  edits  ] 02:27, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

The anatomy of the human(and Infected) hand
So since some people apparently don't pay attention in science class, here's the anatomy of the hand. At the bottom of the hand, commonly referred to as "The Wrist" are the carpal bones. There's approximately 16 bones in your wrist that make up the carpals. Next are the Metacarpals. These are the basic bones in your hand. They are completely immobile and cannot bend what so ever. (At least they shouldn't bend. If they do bend, I suggest you see a doctor right away.) Next are your Proximal Phalanges. These bones make up 1/3 of most of your fingers (1/2 of your thumb). Then there's the Intermediate Phalanges. These are the middle bone in your fingers, and is not found in your thumb. Then last but certainly not least, are your Distal Phalanges. They're the smallest of the Phalanx bones found in your hand, and are literally the tips of your fingers. So now you know the majesty of the human hand! So would you please stop editing the Witch's mutations where her "metacarcels" are elongated! Metacarcels isn't a word, and her Metacarpals stay the same as if she were human. You can clearly see her transverse metacarpal knuckles in her profile image much like you see your own when you bend your fingers. Why is it so hard to understand the difference between Metacarpals and Phalanges? It's like confusing your leg with your arm.

Oh and I insisted on using all the scientific names because "fingers" apparently isn't good enough and we have to use "big words", but if this was too confusing to understand, here's a crude representation I made on how the Witch's hands work compared to our own.

Thank you, and have a wonderfully scientific day! Jo the Marten ( Shriek ) 10:43, September 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * I was the one who originally changed it to metacarpals because I confused the two terms. I suppose people wrongly agreed that the term is supposed to metacarpals, hence why people kept on changing it. Angelofdeath275 15:54, September 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * Ah, well I'm not blaming you, I'm mad at the person who keeps changing it back and misspelling it. Jo the Marten  ( Shriek ) 18:17, September 7, 2009 (UTC)

Oh great
Damn, I don't want to watch that video, but i must... since you put the link there!!!! If I don't comment about it, please assume I died of a heart attack --Crowbar 22:35, September 8, 2009 (UTC)

Um... nevermind, I um... have to go to school tommorow, sooo um... I think i'll need sleep, oh well, i guess I'll just miss out! --Crowbar 22:37, September 8, 2009 (UTC) (DONT MAKE ME WATCH IT!)

WTF is this?? &nbsp? amp;?
Why do people insist in adding these....things? I see no point at all. Can someone tell me what they're supposed to do? Angelofdeath275 12:05, September 23, 2009 (UTC)


 * I believe they are the result of using the rich text editor. They stand for "Non-breakable space." So basically they're just spaces that were made without using the spacebar. =/ Jo the Marten  �  ( Shriek )  ಠ_ಠ  13:31, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

Funny/ironic places you found the witch
I once found her in a bar near the end of the terminal, where have you found her? Whitestpimp 02:00, September 24, 2009 (UTC)Whitestpimp

Let's see: On the hospital, found her in a wheelbarrow on the 28th floor. One time, i threw a Molotov randomly far ahead of me, and started walking forward. Before the Molotov hit, though, the witch music started. just as the Molotov hit, the witch spawned right in the fire. On the woods, she spawned on the rope handles on the big bridge.--Supermutantslayer450 02:03, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

Alright, also I once found her behind the barrier with gas tanks and when we set it off she got set off but couldn't get usWhitestpimp 11:29, September 24, 2009 (UTC)Whitestpimp

She once spawned in a toilet cubicle in Dead Air. I startled her and everyone walled her whilst I kept on keeping the door closed. But she killed me through the door. It's on youtube somewhere, all you see is an arm killing me, Zoey's body flies back and hits the wall, the door bursts open and the witch dies, and ends up on the sitting position on the toilet. I shall try and find it.. It was HILARIOUS! --WaffleMania 16:48, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

On the top of a delivery truck. I have no idea how she could of got up there... Helped me Cr0wn her, I went into the back of the truck and shot her through the ceiling by seeing where she clipped through the truck's ceiling.

On top of a taxi.--Kirby888 04:35, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

Found her in the toilets in no mercy in a cubilcal with a male infected lol Wonder what was going on in there ¬¬ --TeriffiedToxic 10:31, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well now we know why that one is crying xD Deathhacker 15:40, December 2, 2009 (UTC)

Next to the gas station. shot the gas tanks, she was startled by the initial explosion, but didn't come toward me. When it was finally safe to approach, I found the ragdoll in the exact spot where the witch had spawned. it was made funnier by the collective reactions of the other three players with me, who hadn't yet learned that it was possible to blow the station. Xeno the Hedgehog 09:18, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

In the water in Hard rain, where you csn bqarely see her, also in swamp fever. Brianb014

Wait, what
"It is possible that the Survivors of the original Left 4 Dead were aware of this hazard, and thus, traveled at night to avoid the Wandering Witch. "

.. Um, I think the opening cinematic shows how unaware they were. SegaFortress 17:41, October 15, 2009 (UTC)


 * People also think Bill had prior experience with Witches just because he shouted at Zoey to turn her flashlight off. If he was in any way familiar with the Witch, he would not have investigated the bloody crying. SteveZombie 17:52, October 15, 2009 (UTC)


 * It meant that they were aware that the Witch wanders during the day, so they traveled at night.--'Meester SHOGUN 450  RO A  R! 00:47, October 26, 2009 (UTC)


 * I was making a seperate point. Besides, assuming they travelled at night to better avoid the Witch is stupid for two reasons. First, there was nothing to suggest they never travelled during the daytime prior to the events in the game. Second, the opening cutscene makes it so obvious they had never encountered a Witch that it is embarrassing to even have to type it, hence the italics. SteveZombie 01:19, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

Corectoin bill has evedence that he met a wicth before. 1 he seams to now what the light would do to the wicth if the light shined in here eyes. 2 the slash markes on his back provide plenty of evedence of a witch enconter. 3 maney games have reveled thing that there was no evedence of in the ferst game. Zombie killer 1996


 * None of that is evidence. By the time Bill tells Zoey to turn her flashlight off, it is really visually clear that it's not a survivor they're investigating (as well as the likely fact that it was partly Valve's way of warning players what not to do when confronted with one, then Louis beautifully demonstrates the most effective way of getting her attention). Secondly, a Witch isn't the only thing that can put a rip in your jacket, and who's to say it even happened during the Infection? Your third point, if it can be called that, isn't relevant here. The following sentence I shall type in bold; there is evidently something about these words that makes them invisible to some (most) and maybe this way they'll catch your attention: If Bill had ever encountered a Witch before he would have been aware of the fact that they cry loudly. In which case why the hell would he investigate in the first place?! SteveZombie 02:47, November 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * Bill may not have been sure that the cry was the witch. If he had met a witch ONE time before he may not have been certain about all the details. So, he is suspicious about the source of the crying and when the lightning flashes, his suspicions are confirmed, so he tells Zoey to turn off her light. Don't attack me, I know it sounds far-fetched, I'm just throwing around ideas. Imperialscouts 23:10, November 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well even so, the crying would be a definite tell-tale sign even for someone who's only had a single encounter and for anyone with physical evidence of having been attacked by a Witch, knowing what she's capable of, it would be an understatement to say that investigating the source of a similar sign would be a risky venture. SteveZombie 23:19, November 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * Read: Far-Fetched. Imperialscouts 23:32, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

If Bill had met a Witch during the daytime, it's a good chance that he'd be listening for something closer to 'singing'. If he met a 'wandering witch', then his mind wouldn't automatically say Crying = Witch. The wandering witch sounds a bit different to the night one. Not really defending the 'Bill has met a wtich' idea, just saying. Fadm tyler 00:20, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

Just to present some facts: A.) the witch does sound like a crying girl. Bill might have met a witch and knows about the crying, but allowed Zoey to investigate the Witch on the off chance that it's another survivor (which is probably more likely than a Witch, and more survivors is always good). Once he realised it's not, he told Zoey to shut off the lights. B.) The original Left4Dead was suppose to be a sort of "horror movie" style game. Most horror movies are set at night because it's unnerving. It's probably just a coincidence that all the settings were at night. No Mercy, Crash Course, and Death Toll are probably all linked, so it could be assumed that the survivors traveled non-stop. We just only saw the night-time portions. C.) Left4Dead2 is the sequel where Valve promised to answer some of the questions about the Infected. The Wandering Witch is clearly the explanation to why Witches hate flashlights. Hope that'll settle some of the people's questions. Stop over-analyzing things xD 24.150.222.190 21:13, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

The wandering witch doesn't sing, she cries like the normal witch (albeit with a different sound). Bill probably just noticed the claws and red eyes in the intro. Also, the wanderer doesnt explain why the witch hates light, since she is clearly more active during the day when it should be the other way around. Finally, the slash marrks on Bill's back were more likely made by a hunter (if it was a witch, he would probably be dead), if the slashes were even made by an Infected. --Gmanington MCCCXLII 20:36, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

As has been said before, Bill's reaction has nothing to do necessarily with having encountered a Witch before. Saying he's seen a Witch before just because he said to turn the lights off is like claiming Zoey has seen one too, since she told Louis to "Run like hell!" when she started to get up; Bill simply saw she was infected/had claws and Zoey saw that she was dangerous (again, the claws). Bill's torn jacket could be anything, from common infected, to getting caught on an object, to something else entirely; a Witch would've made a much bigger mess of it than that. After Bill pointed out that he had never seen anything like the mutations before (not exact words, but basically what was meant), he pointed out "They're changing." That line makes it pretty clear that the Special Infected were just then developing. Like others have said, if he knew what a Witch was, he wouldn't have bothered investigating the crying. And regardless, look at his facial expression after he instructs Zoey to turn off her light: he is looking at it as if he's trying to figure out exactly what it is. All in all, there is far more pointing toward him having not encountered a Witch prior to the game than there is pointing toward that he has. Which also means they don't travel at night because of the Witch's behaviour. 174.0.159.130 10:42, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

The question that was asked was if it was possible that the survivors were travelling at night to avoid wandering witches. It's not impossible that they are, but it's not totally plausible either. Heres a comparison: bold= night not bold=day Its very plausible that the survivors from L4D prefer the night & the L4D2 survivors prefer day. Still, just because we dont see them travel at day, doesnt mean that they dont.
 * No wandering witches
 * Not as hard to see infected
 * Less hot/tiring
 * Infected may be more hot/tired
 * The big red alarmed cars stand out
 * weapons are more visible

-Grand theft automobile

I think that the first survivors just chose to go during the day, while the other survivors went whenever they could. If you notice, Dark Carnival and Swamp fevor take place mostly at night. Also, Bill saw the witch for a brief second, when the light was on her. So, he new it was a zombie, at the very least. Shining lights on the comman infected actually can set them off.--Vaxnil

Shotgun?
What I want to know is, if the Auto Shotgun only does 288 dps, and the witch has 1000 hit points, how does it kill her in one shot to the head?--'Meester SHOGUN 450  RO A  R! 00:47, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

A head houses the central nervous system? People have killed the Witch many times with a single shot to the head?

But this isnt real life. This is a video game. How does a weapon that does 288 DPS kill a zombie that has 100 health in one shot?--'Meester SHOGUN 450  RO A  R! 01:27, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Bullets to the head do the increased damage? I don't know, but I do know it works. That's how I got Cr0wned. Imperialscouts 02:11, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

I don't know the coding around it, but a single shotgun blast the head will kill the Witch. I've done it many times.

Yea, I know it sounds stupid considering this is a game, but video games these days always make the target's head less damage resistant than the rest of their body. You know? To make the game more realistic. Hence the fame of sniping in video games, granting an instant kill to anything in the head.

OH, Yeah, I know you can cr0wn a Witch with one shot. I just dont understand why shooting a shot that does 288 damage would kill a thing with 1000 health in one shot.--<font color="SeaGreen">'Meester SHOGUN 450  RO <font color="DarkKhaki">A  R! 18:05, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

There's probably a script that gives bonus damage if you manage to cluster all the pellets into one target. Or perhaps the witch has less armor/takes more damage when she's not startled. Deathhacker 21:16, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

The mechanic is, You deal x4 as much damage if your physically touching the witch then you shoot her. It works with all guns but only the shotguns can deal that much damage per shot it dosen't effect melee weapons.

Wandering Witch doesn't sing
She has a different "voice" than the original, but it's still crying. The cue sounds a little like singing (very creepy singing), but there's no way to mistake her crying for singing. Diachronos 05:56, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

Her new cry sounds like my aunt crying. I still like old music but I don't care. I heard her when I played, It was a cry.--Kirby888 21:33, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Bulletproof?
I'd say there's a 99.99% chance this was nothing more than a bizarre glitch, but... it's mentionable. I was playing the Left 4 Dead 2 demo, and it spawned a Wandering Witch. Feeling a bit brave, I stood at a long distance and shot her with my sniper rifle. She didn't seem to care. So... I shot her alot more. I wasted a few clips while the bots would take care of the random special infected that spawned. While during all this blood would come spraying out of her, she would continue on her routine. I couldn't help but find this odd, so... I ran up to her and smacked her with my guitar. Then, she got pissed, and knocked me down. As I shot at her in my downed state, there was sparks. Like if you shoot a wall? The AI seemed preoccupied with the commons that seemed to spawn just then, so they weren't shooting at her. Afterwards she ran off and I had to restart the level. Just thought i'd throw that in here. CloudT 03:55, November 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * I had a similar glitch with a wandering witch. I was loaded up on frag ammo in my shotgun and wanted to see if it made a difference when cr0wning her. I went and shot and missed and got incapped. When she started killing me the health went off really slow, like the rate of a smoker kill. During this whole time the rest of my time unloaded into her, had time to reload and unload again. After having 3 shotguns emptied into her twice she still was not dead, she finished killing me and ran off. At the end of the chapter it gave my stat for Did the most damage to the Witch with a score of 1077, well over what is needed to cr0wn but still she lives on...crazy.--JiNX Bloodfang 22:07, November 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * I have now tried this several times with both special ammo types in all 4 different shotguns on walking and sitting witches. Every time I try to crown with special ammo she glitches and becomes immortal. Would someone else care to experiment with this? If it can be verified by more players on both platforms it should be mentioned in this and/or the special ammo articles.--JiNX Bloodfang 22:09, November 26, 2009 (UTC)

Poor girl
I honestly don't think she's a zombie. I think she is only partially mutated, and is ashamed because she is a freak. She may also be sad because part of her mutation causes her to kill people when startled, notice how when she kills someone she covers her face running away as if ashamed of what she did. I'd give her a hug, but she'd probably rip off my arms :(

"You go ahead. Sneaking works for me."

i think the same thing also bart56912

She may seem like a poor girl but just think about it. Would you feel sorry for her if she killed a team mate?- Zephusa

yes

i would feel sorry for her-Tom

why she cries
i think she cries because she is aware of whats going on around her *like the zombies* but she also knows she is a monster herself and is unable to control herself, hence why she cries, she growls as an attempt at warning the survivors to stay away, and why after killing one, she runs away :D24.215.39.206 15:56, November 22, 2009 (UTC)i_noob

Why does their have to be a reason? its a game... MAYBE as a WILD guess Valve decided on the infected design because it was interesting for gameplay. then because the human psyche sees crying as negative it creates a worrying ambience, a bit of fear. the sobbing is also so you know its there. real world people.--Galaxyguy26 23:06, November 28, 2009 (UTC)

Probably should mention that, psychologically, crying is a sign of sorrow for us humans. Special infected are no longer humans, so whatever behavior they do might be normal for them, even if it seems weird to us. Crying might simply be what the witch LIKES to do, like how a lion likes to sleep. it's just our brain trying to make sense of it all (at least in real life it would, in this case Valve is clearly trying to give us a awesome-but-creepy image). It's the same as some people hearing "I'm about to blow a headgasket" from a common infected. Our brain is trying to humanize the inhuman. Deathhacker 15:48, December 2, 2009 (UTC)

You make valid points and I think we should stop trying to impose rationality on something that clearly has none. The infected are insane and as such we cannot possibly guess their motives for doing anything. The Deep 1 00:36, December 6, 2009

A human or any other individual from a specie who mutates doesn't mean that it isn't a human or a individual from that specie anymore, natural selection. Personally I think that The Witch or the other infected are still human, they're insane, sick and hostile humans. (Well, they didn't change a lot did they?) -- LaZa  19:25, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

(UTC)

Axe/Katana Decapitation
Has anyone managed to achieve this? I've tried, but she just turns around and kills me. If someone has done it, is there any special animation? Like her head falling off? TheCreaturenator 16  21:24, November 28, 2009 (UTC)

Its clearly been removed, if it was even there. I have tried this 4-5 times and no decapitation.--Galaxyguy26 21:59, November 28, 2009 (UTC)

Prior to the release, me and my friends started discussing abandoning the shotgun cuz we could just use Axes. Valve probably foresaw this and limited the one-hit-kill to the shotgun to prevent it. TBH, in L4D, the Assault rifle was better crowd control than the shotgun ever was. I only carried one to cr0wn witches. Deathhacker 21:19, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

Created an account to post this; I have tried the axe/katana several times to no avail. On at least normal mode (new friend was playing with me), however, the chainsaw can "one-shot" the Witch if placed right. It will immediately startle her, but the damage output is high enough to kill her before she can fight back. If someone tests this on advanced or higher to no avail, feel free to edit this out. Mennenth 00:02, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

Witch Origins
I personally believe that the Witch was a teenage girl who was pregnant when the infection hit. after she became infected her baby died in the womb, i think this is why she cries.

Another theory is that she killed her own friends because of the "rage gene" the infection holds. --Obibudd 23:33, December 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure about the 'pregnant' or 'dead friends' part, but she does sound like a teenager. Fadm tyler 04:42, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

I just read that the Tank sometimes attacks the witch, so would it be that she was abused as a human? Does somewhat explain her crying 24.150.222.190 02:52, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well the Tank just attacks anything in its way, that's why it throws cars, runs over other Common Infected, so attacking the Witch would seem to be normal in the Tank's behavior. Lordgeorge16 20:41, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

She does sound like a teenager. Perhaps she was a regular girl that witnessed her friends being killed by the infection -or turned into an infected- -wich ever came first- and she didn't want that to happen to her, so she ran away from all the fears of being killed not yet seeign the affects of the infection. Later she continues to an unkown place or a place she once knew very well, to see her loved on, or friends infected and ready to kill / infect her. Once doing she, she turned to wat we now call the Witch. Perhaps the reminder of what they did to her or who they did to her friends and loved ones is burned into her brain as a cruel and terrible memory. Thus making her sob and cry in sorrow and pain not wanting to remember such thoughts and having to stay as she is knowing she can never turn back.- Zephusa

Shes probably crying because her wedding was gatecrashed and her manicure was ruined.

Its just the infection screwing around with her brain.---Vaxnil

"AKA Bitch"?
Can anyone confirm the statement in the opening line? I've never heard that mentioned from a survivor, and always thought that Rocky was the "bitch" (I play a bit too much single-player expert, if you know what I mean...). Was that last part unnecessary? Absolutely, but I did it anyway. Techercizer (say hi)(pwnage) 05:01, December 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * You have some serious issues with that article! <font color="Yellow">Aratinga A. Ѭ 11:31, December 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * "Most hated character due to lack of dialogue"? I just hate the way she stands right next to me as a special infected slowly squeezes/rips the precious life out of me, chunk by chunk. Techercizer (say hi)(pwnage) 16:03, December 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * Coach calls her "Bitch" on a number of occasions. Listen more to what he says when there is a Witch about. You'll see really quickly. Jo the Marten  [[Image:Mini Hunter.png|I dare you to click Mini Hunter|link=http://l4dwiki.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&user=venatorphile]]( Shriek )  ಠ_ಠ  11:42, December 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks Jo, I guess I just haven't encountered enough witches in Left 4 Dead 2 yet, or at least, enough night-witches. Techercizer (say hi)(pwnage) 16:03, December 21, 2009 (UTC)

Wandering witch
Who reoved what i put down of the wandering witch? Whenever I throw a molotov or a pipebomb at the witch, the director most of the time, moves her to the fire, making me startle the witch. I done it many times, and I know it.

Please put it back up.

moving her?
i was playing swamp fever on normal and i had the granade launcher and a propane tank which i planned to throw at the witch on the ground and shoot it with the launcher in order to do some damage but when i shot she just dissapeared me and my friends looked around. after a lil bit we kept going till we found another witch this died really fast for a witch then in the loading screen it said i only did damage to one witch (i fought both) so my question is did i move her? and if you can it should be put in the notes or something 24.14.44.202 21:55, January 21, 2010 (UTC)totemtrouser24.14.44.202 21:55, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

Static Fire
I was watching my brother play the first l4d and the group he was with startled the witch. Normal. The witch then proceeded to chase the person wo startled her. Still normal. He hid behind a flaming barrel, she climbed over it, lit herself on fire, and began to act like a common infected who was lit on fire. Meaning she didn't attack anyone, flailed around, and burned to death. That was a little unusual, at least to me, I've never seen that before. Was this a glitch? Does it always happen if she runs through static fires? Imperialscouts 23:04, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

New Skin.
Here it is:

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/2752/witchbride.png

Incoporate it into the article however you wish. MrJoe. 21:09, March 14, 2010 (UTC)

I want to...But I have no idea where it should be put.JokersFlame 23:54, March 14, 2010 (UTC)

Users theories on the Witches behavior
I see someone tried to add a section to the wiki for theroies as to why the Witch behaves the way she does. The main article is for facts only, so I decided to make a section here in discussion for people who wanted to post their own opinions. Personally I think that like the Jockey who got mania, the Witch got depression which comes from her strain. I alos think that some of her behaviour is for game balance, dynamics or whatever. Ayllus 19:19, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

I personally think that the Witch is an Infected with a small amount of humanity within her. As an ugly Infected with long, horrid claws, she probably hated it all and cried about it. She got so depressed that even flashlights or the presence of another human being angers her as she wish to be left alone or felt rather embarrassed. She lashed out at the person who startled her and after killing the person, she realized that she killed someone through her uncontrollable anger and feeling mighty guilty, she ran away. Her disliking for sunlight is probably the same reason she hates flashlights or she just stayed in the dark for way too long, especially since Infecteds are not known to sleep. LoneWolfHBS5 19:25, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

Her hate for light could also be that she has incredibly sensitive eyes, hence covering her face in sunlight and having an extreme dislike for flashlights. Ayllus 19:29, March 20, 2010 (UTC)Ayllus

Judging by the witch in bridal clothing, the witch's strain might only effect emotional women. Its doubtful, but then again, most infected's behavior seems to be based off some sort of neurological thing, lightly atleast.--Prof. 18:15, March 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * All brides are emotional women? What are you trying to say buddy? Imperialscouts 03:01, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

I'm saying that witches could be created from emotional women. As in the kind that you see atleast one of in each and every soap opera. I'm not saying brides are always emotional.--Prof. 14:28, March 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't watch soap operas. So, I still ain't sure where this logic is comming from. Imperialscouts 22:16, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, maybe the glow in her eyes have something to do with it. LoneWolfHBS5 19:30, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

The glow could be there because she could have excellent night vision, its like if you see a cat in the dark its eyes glow if there is a source of light because they are extremely good at reflecting light. Possibly granting her pefectly good vision in a place where there would be no light, and she does seem to have an uncanny way of spotting who startled her. So the reason they glow could be because they are really good at reflecting light. Ayllus 19:49, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

I was thinking it had something to do with stimulants since that after the stimulants are ended in affect, the user gets even more depressed hence the crying, Since Weed is a stimulant and after you use it your eyes get red maybe that can help with the glowing eyes. Can we make a second talk page only for theories like on the lostpedia? (Metroid101 19:52, March 20, 2010 (UTC))

I would say Massive Headaches brought from the Infection. CrazyWitchhugger 21:43, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I always though she retained a shred of humanity, but rather than retaining her memories the Infection causes her a lot of pain. As a Special Infected, she's undergoing more of a transformation than a Common Infected, and if she was still just a tiny bit human the pain of this morphing would be incredibly painful. Crying is a natural reaction to pain. Just my two cents.Nightmirage 01:30, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

I dont imgaine it would be very pleasant having 12 inch daggers protuding from the tips of your fingers XD, I could imagine it would be painful having those growing Ayllus 04:36, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

Well I think she's crying for her former self. When she sees a human, her infected side takes over. She fights it, but it wins against her and she kills the Survivor. When she sees their body, her rage dies away and Witch is horrified, and runs away. --Pyro Ninja

I have a new image.
I have just put up one for every other L4D1 infected. She has nowhere to put this.JokersFlame 00:42, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

That's really weird that the witch doesn't have a gallery. Mayhaps someone should start one? Alas, I cannot. I am HTML-challenged.Nightmirage 05:23, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

Odd that she didn't have one. Well now she does anyway. Jo the Marten ( Shriek )  ಠ_ಠ  05:35, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

Sweet! Now we can put up pictures of the new Bride witch when more pictures come out!JokersFlame 19:53, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

The passing should come out on the 25th of march (2 days from today) so we can all find pictures from that time. Darkashura 01:55, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

If thats true, I should be heaaring something from somewhere about someone saying something about some dlc coming sometime, sometime soon, so i havent heard anything from anybody yet and it 24 of MARCH!!!!!!!!!!! wikireader 8:47 March 24, 2010

Ok, I saw this on youtube gameplay video and in the comments the video maker said it would come out on the 25th of March. Besides, unless proven, I will not state this on the passing article if it is wrong. Darkashura 20:09, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

Clean up.
Just got vandalized badly. Help needed. With love, MrJoe. 22:37, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I copypasted an earlier version of the article (Lelouch Le juan's edit), which I think is the last one before the vandals started hitting the page. Sera404 22:47, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you very much. With love, MrJoe. 22:57, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Survived the Witch's first slash.
Strange little incident happened recently. I was filming a scene for my The Church machinima in which Francis would unintentionally startle a Witch and get incapped by the first slash. However, when the Witch began attacking Francis, he survived the first slash without being incapacitated. His health went down to red (couldn't give the exact health because hidehud 4 was used) and I could've sworn god mode was not turned on. After the second slash, then he went down. Anyone else ever survived the first slash from a Witch? I still got the footage and might post it here for others to see. LoneWolfHBS5 20:10, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

Most likely caused by using the "give health" command upon being incap'd. If you give yourself health while your down, you get about 120-130hp, enough to survive a witches first slash, which does 100 damage. I like fire. 00:36, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

I think you're right actually. LoneWolfHBS5 03:45, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

Article Overhaul
I'm intending to clean up the mess of an article soon, but it's going to take some time. The Tactics section alone could take hours. Basically I'm going to have to compile all of the information provided, remove repeated info, clean up all the useless chatter, and possibly re-format sections (ex. expanding the cr0wning section to include all information about how to cr0wn, etc. that is spread throughout). This is one of the messiest articles I have seen on this Wiki, and desperately needs careful attention. The reason I'm posting this, is that I hope people will not f*ck around with the article even more, or add unnecessary parts until the page is sorted out. I hope to start on this over the weekend, but it may get delayed due to my schedule, so please be patient. NatedogXVI 04:27, April 2, 2010 (UTC)N.R.

"Keep shooting her!"
When someone startles the Witch, and she kills him, is it really useful to keep shooting her? I find it a waste of ammo.  LaZa  19:47, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

What's the point of shooting zombies? You're just wasting ammo. Just let them eat you. Not to sound rude, but that's a pretty silly question. Jo the Marten ( Shriek ) ಠ_ಠ  19:49, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

This is why it's useful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuD4vRZp92s Don't worry, it's not a rick-roll.~PileOPapers 20:23, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

Jo, a normal zombie (AKA: Common Infected) is not a Witch, they will not escape after they kill the Survivor who they targeted, the Witch will only kill the one who startled her and then escape, so yeah, it's pointless to keep shooting her when she escapes. And in the kilplixism video, I think that it is a user-created map, and there are lots of bugs in user-created maps.  LaZa  20:42, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, it is a U-C map. :P--?!?!?~PileOPapers 20:54, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

You chase and shoot the witch because its fun.

We have competitions who can kill her first when shes fleeing :D Ayllus 05:51, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Well, It may be fun, but believe me, it don't think it's "fun" in Expert, when The Tank appears and you don't have anything to shot. Oh and BTW sign your posts no-named guy.  LaZa  20:49, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Bride Witch
ya know, I was checking out that newest pic of the bride witch in the gallery and I noticed that she is blonde, and even more surprising, her hair is still styled and permed looking. Maybe one of the women on this site could tell us but I think a nice haircut and styling would not last an attack, infection, possibly falling down and dying before reanimating, and heavy heavy rain. But I could be wrong :) anyways, she could've been real pretty before the outbreak. Poor girl Hellz Lips 04:05, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

oh and her wedding dress is still white and clean, I wonder if we could gauge the date of infection down in new orleans considering the wedding guests are all very clean Hellz Lips 04:05, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

This is getting a BIT off topic, but the infected aren't dead. alve said they were living beings. I could get you the source if you want. But it could've been that she got infected in a way that isn't too harmful to her, but that's up for grabs. Whachamacallit 01:28, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

Rumors why she cries in her page
I propose that we should add the rumors that suggest why she is crying in the page of the witch. Are you with me or not? EverToldYouAboutThatTimeMyBuddyKeith 01:31, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd have to say no, I'm afraid. If we were to just go on rumours, there could be literally hundreds of stupid reasons why she's crying. :3 Sera404 01:42, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Like for instance... her dad raped her when she was human. I would be non-canon and would not go well with the wiki. Plus too many people have too many ideas.(unreasonable ones at that).Darkashura 13:02, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Like for instance... her dad raped her when she was human. I would be non-canon and would not go well with the wiki. Plus too many people have too many ideas.(unreasonable ones at that).Darkashura 13:02, April 28, 2010 (UTC)